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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Your "understanding" of the law is risible.
Trump changed his answer as we've demonstrated. All politicians on both sides lie. Trump and the extreme right wing have taken brazen lying to previously unheard of and dizzying heights. As I explained above, her thoughts on running while Secretary of State are irrelevant because she was not a candidate at that time. If she did indeed receive information valuable to a campaign while SoS and used that information when she was a candidate, that might be illegal. Feel free to present evidence of such. Oh, you don't have any? Pity. Russia wants the US run by an ignorant illiterate egomaniac who's easily manipulated, and that's what they got. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Trump dismisses UN request for FBI to investigate Jamal Khashoggi's murder
quote:Well, that makes it official. Anyone remember the $100 billion in sales to Saudi Arabia Trump claimed to have secured? Edited by JonF, : No reason given. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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And the reason - "We won't investigate them because they are good customers." - kind of makes it worse.
And "And they buy stuff from us that they use to kill other people" - that's even worse still. Anyway, isn't the Republican controlled Senate now on record that Saudis buying weaponry is bad?It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Yah, but it's meaningless.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Chiroptera writes: Anyway, isn't the Republican controlled Senate now on record that Saudis buying weaponry is bad? That's just more Fake News. Remember the Record is controlled by the Main Stream Party.
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
It's everywhere this administration has its fingers, and those fingers are everywhere. Thank God for the courts.
Court Nixes Federal Approval For Cadiz Pipeline To Suck Water Out Of The Mojave To Sell quote:Ready? Wait for it... quote: To get a high position in an agency you have to be implacably opposed to the mission of that agency.
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Apropos of my last sentence above:
Exclusive: Leaked Trump vetting docs quote: |
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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marc9000 writes: You really can't learn that it is illegal for a campaign to accept a donation form a foreign entity. In those instances she was not a campaign. I don't see any distinguishable difference in what Hillary's intentions could have been as Secretary of State as she was weighing her options in running for the presidency after Obama was through, versus Trump's intentions for possible re-election during the second year of his presidency. You can't tell the difference between donations to a campaign and donations to a charity? Really? Does it truly have to be explained that donations to legitimate charities do not flow to the people running them? The Clinton Foundation is a legitimate charity still in operation. The Trump Foundation was forced to shut its doors when it was discovered that the Trumps were using it as a personal piggy bank.
quote: So what are some details of this "sound intelligence product"? That Russia believes in an unarmed citizenry, and Hillary and the Democrats also believe in and unarmed citizenry? This has absolutely nothing to do with Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, but addressing it anyway:
That Russia believes in heavy government involvement in business, that Hillary and the Democrats also believe in heavy government involvement in business? You have it backwards. It is the Republicans who get in bed with big business and vote them massive benefits from the public troughs. Democrats believe businesses should not be the beneficiaries of government largesse and that regulation should serve to rein in unrestrained capitalism with it's exploitation of workers and the environment.
There is so much similarity in Russian communism and U.S. Democrat socialism,... Russians and Republicans believe government should be run for the benefit of business and government. Democrats believe government is for making people's lives better, which means a healthy business environment for full employment, a social safety net so that no one suffers for lack of food or shelter, and regulation to rein in capitalist tendencies toward monopolies, abuse of the environment, exploitation of the workforce, etc.
...when compared with Russian communism versus Trump's beliefs in smaller government involvement with business,... Trump, the head of government, still owns his business, the Trump Organization, and is deeply involved. His nepotistic son, a member of the administration, supposedly works with Eric to run the business. Many of the Trump "friends" he calls on his cell at night are wealthy businessmen. David Pecker, a wealthy businessman who runs the National Enquirer among other publications, was involved in a "catch and kill" scheme with Trump to buy unfavorable stories about Trump and never publish them. So much for Trump believing in reduced involvement with business.
Trump's belief in and armed citizenry etc. This is about the only thing you've said so far that is true, though it still has nothing to do anything JonF said. You're just running down your list of complaints. "Oh, somebody said something about something, time for me to enumerate a bunch of things that aren't true again."
Is that why he favors smaller government, an armed citizenry, fewer regulations, lower taxes? Trump favors a smaller government that is impotent at holding back corporate malfeasance. Trump favors an armed citizenry because he mistakenly believes that the answer to gun deaths is more guns. Trump favors fewer regulations so that businesses can have fewer expenses while they pollute our water and air, and they can run up huge debts that eventually become too great and force government bailouts. Trump favors lower taxes on businesses and the rich paid for by the government in the form of much higher deficits, nearly a trillion dollars in additional debt since the Trump tax cuts went into effect. This is another reason why Trump is not a conservative, since conservatives believe in low deficits or even balanced budgets. They also believe in free trade, not rampant and impulsively imposed tariffs.
For which they are ridiculously unsuited. I see you have no comment on the polls I posted, including one from Fox. Those polls are laughable, I don't care where they come from. I'd bet they don't take the Electoral College into consideration at all. First Trump claims his internal polls showing him way behind in many battleground states don't exist, then he fires four pollsters for leaking information about these non-existent polls. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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marc9000 writes: There's no difference. Once you say "I'm listening" you've stated that you're accepting the information provided. Once you've heard the information you can't unhear it. The acceptance of information from foreign agents creates vulnerabilities in the form of blackmail and extortion, and the agents will have hidden agendas.
If that were true, then there would have to be laws prohibiting a lot of former cabinet members, including Secretaries of State, from ever running for the presidency. Maybe if Mike Pompeo decides to run in 2024, the Democrats will work to get that done. You are terribly confused. Any foreign assistance Mike Pompeo accepts for a future presidential run would be illegal, whether they occurred while he's Secretary of State or serving in any other role, including private citizen. He of course will exchange much information with foreigners in his role as Secretary of State, and as long as it isn't about helping him run for president it's fine.
If the press criticism was wrong then why was Trump also criticized by Republicans, some of them prominent like Senators Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and John Kennedy (R-LA), and why did Trump later change his answer to say that of course he'd notify the FBI? He didn't "change" his answer, he only expounded on it. There have always been ~business as usual~ Republicans who enjoy playing "moderate" when Trump says some things. Trump allies calling Trump out when he declares he will break the law isn't "playing moderate." It's daring to tell the truth when Trump is so far out of line that to do anything else would be politically worse than crossing Trump.
Trump isn't focused on only doing things that please Republicans. Trump isn't focused on anything but pleasing himself. He's neither a Republican nor a conservative.
That's what a lot of voters like about him, myself included. You like that Trump is just out for himself? Why? One of the great ironies of the Trump phenomena is that his policies treat his supporters worse than anyone else. This is finally beginning to dawn on some people, farmers suffering due to Trump tariffs, for example.
Every single president in recent history is always accused of lying. Trump isn't just accused of lying, he's been shown to be lying or misleading 10,800 times so far according to the Washington Post.
The big difference today is all the lies that the supposed free press, the ones who are supposed to give unbiased information, are filling the airwaves with. People are getting wise to them - mainly because of the constant stream of lies for the past 2+ years that Trump colluded with Russia to win the election, something that the Mueller report disproved. If you find a lie or misrepresentation in the Washington Post database that you think they got wrong, you let us know. My most memorable Trump lie is when he said he had no knowledge of the Cohen payoffs to purchase silence about his affairs, then was caught on tape talking about them, and then watched as his court jester Rudy Giuliani said on TV that of course Trump knew about the payoffs. The big problem that Trump is creating is that little of what he says can be trusted. Whether domestically or internationally, if it's information then it is often viewed suspiciously, and if it's declarations of what he'll do, such as deporting millions of immigrants or attacking Iran, then people just wait until he changes his mind, because they know it's coming.
You continue to have trouble distinguishing between a government official and a candidate for office. The Secretary of State is not an elected position, and Hillary Clinton was not running for office while she was Secretary of State, resigning in 2013 well before the 2016 election. Do you think there was a chance that she had a run for president in mind for her future? Of course Hillary Clinton had presidential aspirations. That was no secret.
Trump is in the second year of his presidency. Is the second year of a presidency now defined as a "campaign"? Trump filed his papers for the 2020 election the day after his inauguration. He's been holding campaign rallies all across the country ever since he took office. He never stopped running.
That Russia greatly preferred Trump over Clinton has been proven and verified nine ways from Sunday. Lay it on me, you could start by explaining how Russian society benefits from a Trump presidency more than it would a socialist Democrat presidency. Does Russia want a second amendment now? More free markets? That Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential campaign was an unambiguous conclusion of The Mueller Report:
quote: The CIA and FBI reached similar conclusions and have said so publicly. Where have you been?
Don't get me wrong, I know this has all been carefully dreamed up. And you know this how? You seem to "know" a great many things that are not true.
But I suspect it's only really intended to amuse Trump haters, I don't know that it would hold up to some common sense questioning. I think we'll call you a truth hater.
I grew up in the New York metropolitan area where Trump was a known scumbag real estate developer from the early 1970's on. If you name some things he's done that you think are good I'll let you know what I think. How about a 3.2 GDP, lowest unemployment in 50 years, 500K new manufacturing jobs? The economy began growing way back in 2010. Obama managed to maintain a growing economy for 6 years. Trump took that growing economy and gave it a massive and very stimulative tax cut, so of course the economy began growing slightly faster, plus there are all the regulations about the environment that businesses don't have to follow anymore, leaving a legacy of dirtier air and water for our children, and all the bank reserve requirements that are lower now, leaving us vulnerable to another financial crash like the one in 2008.
Now I know the early talking point is that all this is due to the actions of Barrack what-magic-wand-do-you-have Obama, but after 2 + years, it's getting a little bit old. Since when does the truth ever get old? Again, the economy began growing under Obama back in 2010. Here's a graph. You can see the downturn from the financial crash in 2009, and after that GDP was positive year after year, including the Trump years:
What the future holds may be analogous to when Trump took his father's money and bankrupted it several times. Right now he's taken a growing US economy and if he keeps on as he is he could well bankrupt it (i.e., recession). Trump has already given us the largest budget deficits in history.
Getting taxes and regulations off the back of risk takers and job creators is what makes good economic things happen, everyone knows that, though some still stubbornly refuse to admit it. I think everyone agrees the government should maintain a healthy business environment. But we used to have stronger regulations for protecting our environment, preventing monopolies, encouraging fair business practices, and maintaining financial stability. Trump's cutting back of those regulations while at the same time politicizing the Fed is not a good thing.
A "scumbag"? You have an unchangeable personal hatred? I wasn't expressing any personal feelings toward Trump. I was merely describing him. He's a scumbag real estate developer from New York City who lied and cheated and exploited and discriminated, sort of the definition of a scumbag.
He's 73 now, you can't accept that maybe he's learned from a few actions of his past, and just might have a desire to do what's best for the country where his children and grandchildren live? Trump's actions indicate he does not care about the country. His family effectively lives in a different country, insulated and isolated from the problems everyone else has to deal with, from salaries too low to afford the rents near where they work, to decaying infrastructure, to poor water quality, to poor air quality, to rising sea levels, to changing and more unpredictable and more violent climatic events.
He's recently done charitable things and admirable private things that go completely unreported by the press. And yet you somehow know about these completely unreported "admirable private things." What are they, pray tell, and how did you find out about them?
Carlson is a very small part of Fox News, and I agree, his talk isn't white supremacy... Uh, we don't agree. Tucker Carlson talks white supremacy all the time. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar cleanup.
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
I don't see any distinguishable difference in what Hillary's intentions could have been as Secretary of State as she was weighing her options in running for the presidency after Obama was through, versus Trump's intentions for possible re-election during the second year of his presidency.
You can't tell the difference between donations to a campaign and donations to a charity? Really? Does it truly have to be explained that donations to legitimate charities do not flow to the people running them? The Clinton Foundation is a legitimate charity still in operation. The Trump Foundation was forced to shut its doors when it was discovered that the Trumps were using it as a personal piggy bank.
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Any foreign assistance Mike Pompeo accepts for a future presidential run would be illegal, whether they occurred while he's Secretary of State or serving in any other role, including private citizen.
Might be true, but not yet established in court.
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Okay. And I agree with your earlier statement that receiving assistance and/or conspiring about campaigns with foreigners even while not engaged in a campaign may possibly be illegal. Certainly it's unethical. I raised the same point when Marc mentioned Pompeo.
I agree about Marc jumping around. He has pet talking points that he raises whenever the mood strikes him, without regard to what anyone actually said. --Percy
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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He's recently done charitable things and admirable private things that go completely unreported by the press.
Name six.
Carlson is a very small part of Fox News, and I agree, his talk isn't white supremacy ...
White supremacists hail him as a white supremacist. They should know. Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke declared last year that Carlson is one of “the voices we have in the media on our side.” Ever hear of the Daily Stormer? The most well known neo-Nazi white supremacist site on the Internet?
Neo-Nazi Tucker Carlson Sends Zionist Neocon Bastard Ralph Peters to a Lampshade Manufacturing FacilityTucker Carlson RUTHLESSLY RAMS Atheist Whore Into an INDUSTRIAL WOODCHIPER Over Disagreement on Benches RACE WAR: Tucker BTFOs Little Benji With FACTS, LAWGIC and NATIONALISM! Ugh. I need a shower.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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So does marc9000 think Russia is a communist state? He can't be that clueless can he? I mean I thought everyone knew of the fall of the USSR, which wasn't actually communist in the first place.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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Worship words.
Communist = "Stuff I don't like."It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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