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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5718
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 1471 of 1484 (855754)
06-22-2019 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1466 by Faith
06-21-2019 5:56 PM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
I would have expected you to know this but I guess you don't. The behavior of great men of the Bible in having many wives was forbidden but they did it anyway.

That's certainly true some of the time but some of God's favorite people did some amazingly debaucherous things.

They were sinners, at odds with God who decreed one man, one woman for marriage. THAT's the tradition I have in mind. The man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife....

Jacob had two wives and in addition to them had two sex slaves (concubines), sired children from all of them. David had twelve... and his son, the "wisest man of all time," King Solomon, took polygamy to an insane level. The bible never really condones it or condemns it. It just provided provisions for how to keep all the wives happy and in the New Testament some high ranking church members were expected to only have one wife, suggesting that it really was not uncommon for everyone else... or as Paul suggests, no wives if you can figure out a way to not "burn with passion."

I think you, like many Christians, have an idealized and largely imaginary view of what biblical life was like or what you think life ought to be like. Every single generation of Christians, since the very beginning, believes that were "right at the door" of Tribulation and that society has "gone to hell in a hand bag." We have to "Make America Great Again," which is really preconditioned on this false Leave It To Beaver notion of the way they remembered the world. The reality is America and the world was more messed up in the 50's than it is now.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1466 by Faith, posted 06-21-2019 5:56 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1472 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 9:19 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32133
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1472 of 1484 (855763)
06-22-2019 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1471 by Hyroglyphx
06-22-2019 4:29 PM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
I have an "idealized" view of the biblical context? Knowing about all the polygamy and David's adultery and murder and so on? How about the incident in the book of Judges where a man's concubine was murdered and he dismembered her body and sent it in pieces around to all the tribes of Israel. You can't read the Bible without being struck by the enormity of the sins committed by God's own people and the horrors of everyday llfe with wars and more wars and murders and so on.

"Make America Great Again" is about restoring the nation to sanity after decades of M a r x ist attempts to destroy it, lyes about how evll it is when it's in fact the best nation that ever existed on this earth and so on.

A Rumanian pastor who was persecuted for years under a M a r x ist regime for his faith said in a darkly humorous vein: "As for the question when the Tribulation is going to happen, the rest of the world has been wondering when America is going to go through it since everybody else has been going through it for decades." The M a r x ists have been making progress in that direction for years now but under Trump we are getting a bit of a reprieve by God's mercy.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1471 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-22-2019 4:29 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1473 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-22-2019 10:06 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5718
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 1473 of 1484 (855773)
06-22-2019 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1472 by Faith
06-22-2019 9:19 PM


Re: SCOTUS refuses to hear about "gay wedding cakes"
I have an "idealized" view of the biblical context?

I mean about the way you envision life to be or the life must have been during biblical times.

"Make America Great Again" is about restoring the nation to sanity after decades of M a r x ist attempts to destroy it, lyes about how evll it is when it's in fact the best nation that ever existed on this earth and so on.

Well, I won't disagree that Marxism sucks or that on whole the US is still one of the greatest nations erected. But I always wonder when the moment America was Great that Trump is referring to. Certainly wasn't the 60's.

As for the question when the Tribulation is going to happen, the rest of the world has been wondering when America is going to go through it since everybody else has been going through it for decades."

Tribulation is a global event, according to Revelation, Daniel, and Isaiah.

The M a r x ists have been making progress in that direction for years now but under Trump we are getting a bit of a reprieve by God's mercy.

Trump isn't a Christian, never has been, never will be... and the only reason he could give two shits about Christians is because he knows he has to pander to that base to get reelected.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1472 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 9:19 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16806
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 1474 of 1484 (855824)
06-23-2019 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by Faith
03-17-2017 1:48 PM


Re: Those who will not inherit the kingdom of God unless they repent
Faith writes:

Taken it to heart many times, repent, God forgives, I fall again.


So you've got your Get Out of Hell Free card on a string - play it and then pull it back to play it again next turn.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 1:48 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1475 of 1484 (855947)
06-25-2019 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
03-12-2017 7:23 AM


I actually see gay marriage as a very powerful rejection of the beliefs of those religious people and their ilk who purposefully fly planes into buildings for their beliefs.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 03-12-2017 7:23 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1476 by Faith, posted 06-25-2019 5:42 AM Pressie has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32133
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1476 of 1484 (855950)
06-25-2019 5:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1475 by Pressie
06-25-2019 5:28 AM


I don't consider those people "religious," they have a murderous ideology akin to The Third Reich or various murderous Communist regimes.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1475 by Pressie, posted 06-25-2019 5:28 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1477 by Pressie, posted 06-25-2019 5:51 AM Faith has responded
 Message 1479 by Pressie, posted 06-25-2019 6:03 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1477 of 1484 (855951)
06-25-2019 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1476 by Faith
06-25-2019 5:42 AM


Luckily for humanity your personal considerations don't count, as they did it in the name of their religion. So, to get back to the topic.

Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity

I see gay marrige as an attack on the beliefs of those people who flew planes into buildings.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1476 by Faith, posted 06-25-2019 5:42 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1478 by Faith, posted 06-25-2019 5:56 AM Pressie has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32133
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1478 of 1484 (855952)
06-25-2019 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1477 by Pressie
06-25-2019 5:51 AM


OK, but the fact is that Christianity is under attack these days from lots of angles and since it opposes gay marriage and treats homosexuality as a sin that includes the LGBT people. Certainly the law that requires us to accept gay marriage against our biblical viewpoint is hostile to Christianity. And certainly there are plenty of opinions expressed here at EvC that echo that same hostility.

ABE: And come to think of it, any expression of hostility to Islam is hardly ever expressed here or in any public discussion for that matter, so your comment is unusual.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1477 by Pressie, posted 06-25-2019 5:51 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1480 by Pressie, posted 06-25-2019 6:06 AM Faith has responded
 Message 1484 by ringo, posted 06-25-2019 11:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1479 of 1484 (855953)
06-25-2019 6:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1476 by Faith
06-25-2019 5:42 AM


This was a funny one.

Faith writes:

I don't consider those people "religious," they have a murderous ideology akin to The Third Reich or various murderous Communist regimes.

I've read from the word salads spewed by WLC that Christianity is supposedly not a religion, but a "personal relationship". This is the first time I've heard a Christian religious apologist claiming that Islam is not a religion...

I can only laugh.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1476 by Faith, posted 06-25-2019 5:42 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1480 of 1484 (855955)
06-25-2019 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1478 by Faith
06-25-2019 5:56 AM


Faith writes:

Certainly the law that requires us to accept gay marriage against our biblical viewpoint is hostile to Christianity


Certainly hostile to the religion of those people who flew into buildings.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1478 by Faith, posted 06-25-2019 5:56 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1481 by Faith, posted 06-25-2019 6:10 AM Pressie has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32133
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1481 of 1484 (855956)
06-25-2019 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1480 by Pressie
06-25-2019 6:06 AM


I wish it were so but the fact seems to be that Islam has been growing in popularity since 9/11 instead of being challenged at all. They wouldn't accept gay marriage either, but it's only Christian businesses that have been challenged by that law, and it's pretty clear that gay activists have sought out those businesses in at least some of the cases. I'm sure they could find a way to challenge Muslims if they wanted to but so far that isn't happening.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1480 by Pressie, posted 06-25-2019 6:06 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1482 by Pressie, posted 06-25-2019 6:49 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1483 by Chiroptera, posted 06-25-2019 10:21 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1482 of 1484 (855957)
06-25-2019 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1481 by Faith
06-25-2019 6:10 AM


I disgree. Gay marriages do challenge Islam. Gay marriges are a challenge to non-christian religions.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1481 by Faith, posted 06-25-2019 6:10 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6693
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 1483 of 1484 (855974)
06-25-2019 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1481 by Faith
06-25-2019 6:10 AM


Targeting?
The only "targeting" case that I'm aware of is William Jack's search for a bakery that would refuse his "hate cake".

I'm sure that there are individuals here and there who might go through the trouble of getting a marriage license just so they can make trouble for a bigot; if so then in the United States the most obvious "targets" are Christian evangelicals who make a big public show of their religious exceptionalism. Because of the anti-Muslim bigotry in this country, American Muslims tend to keep a lower profile.

If anyone has good statistics (hey, conservatives, that's not linking to a couple of individual examples!) on the relative frequencies violations of discrimination against sexual orientation anti-discrimination laws by businesses owned by Christians versus by Muslims, you're free to supply them.

At any rate, I only know of three high profile cases: Masterpiece Cake Shop, Sweet Cakes, and Elane Photography v Willock which made it to the New Mexico Supreme Court. None of these involved "targeting".

I'm guessing that in the majority of the same-sex wedding situations, a couple walks into a business, the owner states their objection, and the couple the moves onto another business because they don't want to hassle with a lawsuit.

In the few cases where the couple decide to fight for their rights, once the business owner gets the official letter that says to knock that shit off (or, if they're stubborn, when they're hit with the first fine), they decide to comply with the law because they don't want to hassle with the lawsuit.

In the vast majority of cases, there aren't any problems because both business owners and engaged couples have better things to spend their time and money on than lawyers.

If Muslims are less likely to end up in court of this issue than Christians are, it's not because of "selective targeting." I suspect it'll be because they are less likely to fight this in court.


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1481 by Faith, posted 06-25-2019 6:10 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16806
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 1484 of 1484 (855984)
06-25-2019 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1478 by Faith
06-25-2019 5:56 AM


Faith writes:

... the fact is that Christianity is under attack these days from lots of angles and since it opposes gay marriage and treats homosexuality as a sin that includes the LGBT people.


It's LGBT people who are under attack from a subset of Christianity. They're defending themselves from you.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1478 by Faith, posted 06-25-2019 5:56 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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