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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 705 of 3207 (855722)
06-22-2019 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 704 by Faith
06-22-2019 10:37 AM


Re: Can we at least get the history correct.
Faith writes:
... founded in the 700s, 606 AD to be precise....
Nice precision. I was born in the 2000s, 1952 to be precise.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 704 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 10:37 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 707 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 1:19 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 743 of 3207 (855821)
06-23-2019 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 708 by Dredge
06-22-2019 8:03 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Dredge writes:
Okay, so what is “the will of my Father”?
One of our members has this in his signature:
quote:
Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
The will of your Father is for you to do justly, love mercy and walk humbly with your God.
Dredge writes:
Here’s a clue: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life....
You should follow that clue a little further. What does it mean to "believe"?
Are you a True Believer if you mouth "Lord! lLord!"
quote:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Apparently not.
quote:
Matthew 25:34-36 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
And
quote:
Matthew 25;40 ...Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
The ones who inherit the kingdom - i.e. the real believers - are the ones who feed the hungry, etc. not the ones who only profess belief.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 708 by Dredge, posted 06-22-2019 8:03 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 886 by Dredge, posted 06-30-2019 12:40 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 744 of 3207 (855822)
06-23-2019 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 732 by Phat
06-23-2019 7:02 AM


Phat writes:
ringo writes:
Eating the fruit made Adam and Eve more like God. He said so Himself.
Uh huh. Lets how about I??? fOCUS.
What?

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 732 by Phat, posted 06-23-2019 7:02 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 745 of 3207 (855823)
06-23-2019 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 712 by Dredge
06-22-2019 9:42 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Dredge writes:
Try googling the deaths attributed to Communist regimes in the 20th century.
Are you suggesting that we should measure righteousness by body count?

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 712 by Dredge, posted 06-22-2019 9:42 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 772 of 3207 (855876)
06-24-2019 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 706 by Phat
06-22-2019 1:10 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Phat writes:
Do you mean that this "hate" originate with Jesus Himself...?
quote:
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
And to clarify, "hate" in this context is more of a willingness to give something up:
quote:
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Similar to when He told the rich man to sell what he had and give to the poor - which you reject.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by Phat, posted 06-22-2019 1:10 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 835 of 3207 (856193)
06-28-2019 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 818 by Dredge
06-27-2019 10:22 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Dredge writes:
You quote a verse like this ” “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:7) out of context, but then when I ask you to explain how God can be “evil” in this verse, yet be “a righteous God” a few verses later (v.21), you have no sensible answer.
At least one of the verses is wrong. We already know, since Genesis 3, that God is capable of bending the truth.
Dredge writes:
You really ought to leave Bible discussions to those who can present arguments that rise above your level of bumbling, ignorant amateur.
You really ought to read the Bible before you bumble into Bible discussions.
Dredge writes:
Approaching the subject honestly and with an open mind would also help.
Take your own advice.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 818 by Dredge, posted 06-27-2019 10:22 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 836 of 3207 (856194)
06-28-2019 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 819 by Dredge
06-27-2019 11:08 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Dredge writes:
Christianity: Jesus said, “I send you out as lambs in the midst of wolves, so be as wise as serpents but as innocent as doves” (Matt 10:16).
So, is that Jesus' left-handed way of admitting that the serpent in Genesis 3 was right?

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 819 by Dredge, posted 06-27-2019 11:08 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 862 of 3207 (856286)
06-29-2019 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 857 by Phat
06-29-2019 8:00 AM


Re: You're not looking hard enough
Phat writes:
I can listen to a sermon for two minutes and discern whether the Pastor is "one of us" or not.
So can all of us. Bullshit is not hard to detect.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 857 by Phat, posted 06-29-2019 8:00 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 864 by Phat, posted 06-29-2019 11:59 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 863 of 3207 (856288)
06-29-2019 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 861 by GDR
06-29-2019 11:31 AM


Re: chances
GDR writes:
What I am claiming is the incredibly high degree of improbability that the processes themselves existed without an intelligent cause.
Intelligence can only work with existing processes.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 861 by GDR, posted 06-29-2019 11:31 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 865 by GDR, posted 06-29-2019 12:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 866 of 3207 (856295)
06-29-2019 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 864 by Phat
06-29-2019 11:59 AM


Re: You're not looking hard enough
Phat writes:
How do you know its bullshit? Only because it doesnt line up with your standards?
Because it doesn't line up with any standards of reality or logic.
Phat writes:
Your way of Biblical interpretation is the one that is way off.
That's an empty claim. Back it up or withdraw it.
Phat writes:
First of all, you assert that God is a made up concept within human minds.
And you know damn well it is. You yourself are the first to say that Zeus and the Flying Spaghetti Monster are made up.
Phat writes:
Then you go on to say that the stories do have value despite being mythos...
And why wouldn't they?
Phat writes:
...and you trot out matthew 25 and proudly say that yes, yes we should give to the poor.
We know that's true because we are social animals.
Phat writes:
...you determine that according to humanist consensus, we should obey the character Jesus in the book.
Yes, the Jesus character understood that we are social animals. And?
Phat writes:
In essence what you have done is humanize the story of a Deity and substituted humans correcting humans.
There's no need to "substitute" anything. We can understand what it means to be social animals without spackling on a "God" layer.
Phat writes:
I wouldn't be surprised to see you lobby for legislation for mandatory compulsive giving to help the poor.
We already have that. It's called taxation. They had it in the Old testament. It was called tithing.
Phat writes:
#Extreme Socialist
Stop being such an asshole. You're turning into faith.
I'm pointing out what Jesus fucking told you to do! You're spitting in His face.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 864 by Phat, posted 06-29-2019 11:59 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 877 by Phat, posted 06-29-2019 4:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 867 of 3207 (856296)
06-29-2019 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 865 by GDR
06-29-2019 12:02 PM


Re: chances
GDR writes:
Sure, with our human level of intelligence.
Exactly. The only level of intelligence there is. If you're claiming that some entity has something "beyond intelligence", don't call it intelligence. Why not just call it magic?
GDR writes:
The processes exist. The question is why.
That isn't really much of a question - unless you have a canned answer that you're trying to sell.
GDR writes:
His view is every bit as subjective as mine and isn't absolute knowledge of the truth.
Of course there is no such thing as "absolute knowledge" - but no, Stile's view is not as subjective as yours. His view is based on what we objectively know.
GDR writes:
I do claim though that my conclusion is more probable, but that again is subjective.
No, probability is not subjective. It's mathematics.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 865 by GDR, posted 06-29-2019 12:02 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 870 by GDR, posted 06-29-2019 1:10 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 872 of 3207 (856306)
06-29-2019 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 870 by GDR
06-29-2019 1:10 PM


Re: chances
GDR writes:
Call it whatever you like but that doesn't make any point beyond the use of words.
Well, it does. It throws the whole idea of intelligence out the window because intelligence is not what you're talking about. You're reducing the idea to something completely made up.
GDR writes:
I am not arguing for a canned answer but simply against Stile's claim of knowledge.
I'm saying that the people who ask "why the processes exist" tend to be people who (think they) already know the answer. The rest of us have enough to do trying to understand the processes.
GDR writes:
Stile's view is based on what we objectively know and stopping there.
Yes. Everything beyond there is subjective.
GDR writes:
..and just how did the laws of mathematics become part of our existence?
That's a meaningless question. The concept of "God" doesn't add anything to the answer.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 870 by GDR, posted 06-29-2019 1:10 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 881 by GDR, posted 06-29-2019 5:37 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 880 of 3207 (856337)
06-29-2019 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 877 by Phat
06-29-2019 4:03 PM


Re: You're not looking hard enough
Phat writes:
Not that I need to justify anything to anyone...but I give enough.
I didn't say a word about you not giving enough. I asked you not to call call me an "extreme socialist". Learn what the word means.
Phat writes:
Jesus did not command everyone to give all they have.
We have only your self-serving word on that. The Church in Rome disagreed with you. (See Ananias and Sapphira.)
Phat writes:
Zaccheus got away with giving part away..
The gospel of Luke says that Zaccheus offered half. It doesn't say he got away with it.
Phat writes:
My only nitpick is what is meant by "left over"?
Well, you quoted it:
quote:
"He who gathered much had nothing left over, and he who gathered little had no lack."
What part of "nothing left over" is confusing to you?
And:
quote:
"... now at this time your abundance may supply their lack, that their abundance also may supply your lack -- that there may be equality."
sounds a lot like, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need," doesn't it?
Phat writes:
Faith and I are different yet similar. Both of us think we are smarter than the rest of you in regards to Theology.
And both of you prove you're not. By their fruits ye shall know them.
Phat writes:
She goes on to tear apart secular science---something I wouldn't do except in regards to the existence and reality of God and Jesus in particular---living eternally today.
That's kinda like throwing away only one wheel on your car. It has the same effect as throwing all of them away.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 877 by Phat, posted 06-29-2019 4:03 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 882 of 3207 (856339)
06-29-2019 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 881 by GDR
06-29-2019 5:37 PM


Re: chances
GDR writes:
The view that we are all the result of a series of mindless processes is just as made up as is the idea that the processes had an intelligent root.
Nonsense. It's as objective as anything we know.
GDR writes:
Understanding "why" the processes exist is an entirely different question than actually understanding the processes.
I agree - and it's an unimportant question.
GDR writes:
It seems we have reached an agreement. Stile's views and my views are both subjective and neither one of us "know" that we are correct.
No we have not. I'm saying that Stile's position is objective and yours is not. My only disagreement with Stile is over the use of the word "know". I make more of a distinction between not knowing it's true and knowing it's false.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 881 by GDR, posted 06-29-2019 5:37 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 884 by GDR, posted 06-29-2019 6:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 888 of 3207 (856393)
06-30-2019 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 884 by GDR
06-29-2019 6:09 PM


Re: chances
GDR writes:
Stile's claim is that he "knows" God does not exist. That claim means that he believes his views are objective, and he attempts to give an objective rationale for his statement. It seems to me that we agree that he has failed to do so.
No. Read what you quoted. My only nitpick with Stile is over the use of the word "know".

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 884 by GDR, posted 06-29-2019 6:09 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 896 by GDR, posted 06-30-2019 5:21 PM ringo has replied

  
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