Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 79 (8975 total)
41 online now:
jar, kjsimons, PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat) (4 members, 37 visitors)
Newest Member: baidoithuongvn
Post Volume: Total: 875,784 Year: 7,532/23,288 Month: 91/1,347 Week: 108/342 Day: 5/30 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Some states protect women's rights
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


(1)
Message 216 of 286 (856414)
06-30-2019 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Theodoric
06-08-2019 3:39 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
From across the pond
quote:
https://www.express.co.uk/...-MP-outrage-at-39-week-abortion

EXCLUSIVE: MP outrage at 39-week abortion

SHOCKED MPs have called for a change to Britain’s “medieval and cruel” abortion laws after a termination was carried out on a baby only days before it was due to be born By Caroline Wheeler PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, Jul 13, 2014

It was aborted 39 weeks into pregnancy under guidelines that allow termination where there is a “significant risk” the child will be disabled.

Department of Health figures show that last year a further three abortions were carried out on mothers who were 38 weeks pregnant and two more on women 37 weeks into pregnancy.

Conservative MP Fiona Bruce, co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Pro-life Group, said: “I do not understand how we can have a law which allows the life of a baby with a disability to be ended at full term. It is a graphic illustration of society’s inconsistency on disability.

“After birth we work hard to ensure equality, but before birth we have laws to prevent the disabled taking their first breath. This medieval, cruel, discriminatory law must change.”

Labour MP Rob Flello added: “We have a Jekyll and Hyde approach to disability. One one hand the entire country can be united in praise of paralympians. On the other we can permit the abortion of children at nine months simply for the crime of having a disability.

NHS guidelines consider a baby is full-term at 37 weeks, though most women go into labour between 38 and 42 weeks into their pregnancy.

Abortion beyond 24 weeks can only legally be carried out if there is a grave risk to the life of the mother or there is severe foetal abnormality.

Such a procedure routinely involves giving the baby an injection, usually of potassium, into its heart so it dies before the process starts.

Last year there were 190 abortions beyond the 24-week limit, almost 20 per cent up on the previous year.

Most were carried out under a legal definition known as Ground E, where there is “substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped”.

Last year a parliamentary commission called for change in the law after hearing rules even allowed abortions at 40 weeks on grounds of disability.

It learned that abortions can be carried out on babies with a cleft lip or club foot, conditions that can be rectified after birth. One doctor reported that on some occasions a wrong diagnosis had been given and the dead foetus was found to have no disability.

So far there has been no official Government response to the report.
IPSO Regulated Copyright ©2019 Express Newspapers. "Daily Express" is a registered trademark. All rights reserved.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Theodoric, posted 06-08-2019 3:39 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Theodoric, posted 07-01-2019 9:14 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 217 of 286 (856417)
06-30-2019 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Theodoric
06-18-2019 7:32 PM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
You asked for the definition of the term. I gave you the definition of the term. If you don't like that definition, you're free to dispute it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Theodoric, posted 06-18-2019 7:32 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Theodoric, posted 07-01-2019 9:14 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 218 of 286 (856418)
06-30-2019 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Chiroptera
06-18-2019 9:39 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Purely as a matter of opinion polling, yes, there are many people who consider regulations to prevent abortion of a 1-week gestation fetus to be unduly intrusive but on the other hand consider an abortion performed at 39 weeks gestation to be extraordinarily crass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Chiroptera, posted 06-18-2019 9:39 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Chiroptera, posted 06-30-2019 5:41 PM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 226 of 286 (856493)
07-01-2019 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by AZPaul3
06-19-2019 5:26 AM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
I'm sure you've done the research, so I don't know why you ask, but, here it is:

From across the pond

quote:
https://www.express.co.uk/...-MP-outrage-at-39-week-abortion

EXCLUSIVE: MP outrage at 39-week abortion

SHOCKED MPs have called for a change to Britain’s “medieval and cruel” abortion laws after a termination was carried out on a baby only days before it was due to be born By Caroline Wheeler PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, Jul 13, 2014

It was aborted 39 weeks into pregnancy under guidelines that allow termination where there is a “significant risk” the child will be disabled.

Department of Health figures show that last year a further three abortions were carried out on mothers who were 38 weeks pregnant and two more on women 37 weeks into pregnancy.

Conservative MP Fiona Bruce, co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Pro-life Group, said: “I do not understand how we can have a law which allows the life of a baby with a disability to be ended at full term. It is a graphic illustration of society’s inconsistency on disability.

“After birth we work hard to ensure equality, but before birth we have laws to prevent the disabled taking their first breath. This medieval, cruel, discriminatory law must change.”

Labour MP Rob Flello added: “We have a Jekyll and Hyde approach to disability. One one hand the entire country can be united in praise of paralympians. On the other we can permit the abortion of children at nine months simply for the crime of having a disability.

NHS guidelines consider a baby is full-term at 37 weeks, though most women go into labour between 38 and 42 weeks into their pregnancy.

Abortion beyond 24 weeks can only legally be carried out if there is a grave risk to the life of the mother or there is severe foetal abnormality.

Such a procedure routinely involves giving the baby an injection, usually of potassium, into its heart so it dies before the process starts.

Last year there were 190 abortions beyond the 24-week limit, almost 20 per cent up on the previous year.

Most were carried out under a legal definition known as Ground E, where there is “substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped”.

Last year a parliamentary commission called for change in the law after hearing rules even allowed abortions at 40 weeks on grounds of disability.

It learned that abortions can be carried out on babies with a cleft lip or club foot, conditions that can be rectified after birth. One doctor reported that on some occasions a wrong diagnosis had been given and the dead foetus was found to have no disability.

So far there has been no official Government response to the report.
IPSO Regulated Copyright ©2019 Express Newspapers. "Daily Express" is a registered trademark. All rights reserved.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by AZPaul3, posted 06-19-2019 5:26 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 227 of 286 (856494)
07-01-2019 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by AZPaul3
06-19-2019 5:28 AM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
From across the pond
quote:
https://www.express.co.uk/...-MP-outrage-at-39-week-abortion

EXCLUSIVE: MP outrage at 39-week abortion

SHOCKED MPs have called for a change to Britain’s “medieval and cruel” abortion laws after a termination was carried out on a baby only days before it was due to be born By Caroline Wheeler PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, Jul 13, 2014

It was aborted 39 weeks into pregnancy under guidelines that allow termination where there is a “significant risk” the child will be disabled.

Department of Health figures show that last year a further three abortions were carried out on mothers who were 38 weeks pregnant and two more on women 37 weeks into pregnancy.

Conservative MP Fiona Bruce, co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Pro-life Group, said: “I do not understand how we can have a law which allows the life of a baby with a disability to be ended at full term. It is a graphic illustration of society’s inconsistency on disability.

“After birth we work hard to ensure equality, but before birth we have laws to prevent the disabled taking their first breath. This medieval, cruel, discriminatory law must change.”

Labour MP Rob Flello added: “We have a Jekyll and Hyde approach to disability. One one hand the entire country can be united in praise of paralympians. On the other we can permit the abortion of children at nine months simply for the crime of having a disability.

NHS guidelines consider a baby is full-term at 37 weeks, though most women go into labour between 38 and 42 weeks into their pregnancy.

Abortion beyond 24 weeks can only legally be carried out if there is a grave risk to the life of the mother or there is severe foetal abnormality.

Such a procedure routinely involves giving the baby an injection, usually of potassium, into its heart so it dies before the process starts.

Last year there were 190 abortions beyond the 24-week limit, almost 20 per cent up on the previous year.

Most were carried out under a legal definition known as Ground E, where there is “substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped”.

Last year a parliamentary commission called for change in the law after hearing rules even allowed abortions at 40 weeks on grounds of disability.

It learned that abortions can be carried out on babies with a cleft lip or club foot, conditions that can be rectified after birth. One doctor reported that on some occasions a wrong diagnosis had been given and the dead foetus was found to have no disability.

So far there has been no official Government response to the report.
IPSO Regulated Copyright ©2019 Express Newspapers. "Daily Express" is a registered trademark. All rights reserved.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by AZPaul3, posted 06-19-2019 5:28 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 228 of 286 (856495)
07-01-2019 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by ringo
06-25-2019 11:40 AM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
The article says, "In a widely-publicized interview with The New York Times in 1997, Ron Fitzsimmons, executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, estimated that in the majority of cases, the procedure is performed on a healthy mother and healthy fetus that is 20 weeks or more along in development."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by ringo, posted 06-25-2019 11:40 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by AZPaul3, posted 07-01-2019 2:48 PM Sarah Bellum has responded
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 07-02-2019 11:39 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 229 of 286 (856496)
07-01-2019 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Theodoric
06-25-2019 1:05 PM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
The passage quoted says, in part, "...then pulling the fetus through it feet first until only the head remained inside. Using scissors or another sharp instrument, the head was then punctured..."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Theodoric, posted 06-25-2019 1:05 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 230 of 286 (856497)
07-01-2019 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by ringo
07-01-2019 9:56 AM


Re: Is the fetus a human being? Is it a living creature that we allow you to kill?
But we do have laws, surely you agree that some of them are not "dictating"!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by ringo, posted 07-01-2019 9:56 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by ringo, posted 07-01-2019 2:05 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 257 of 286 (856629)
07-01-2019 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by ringo
07-01-2019 2:05 PM


Re: Is the fetus a human being? Is it a living creature that we allow you to kill?
On the other hand, although public support for legal abortion is quite high, substantial numbers think favorably of partial-birth abortion bans, so in thinking such laws are "dictatorial" there are many who disagree with you. You might disagree with whether or not such laws should be passed (I personally think they should not be), but calling them "dictatorial" and comparing them to forcing "somebody to carry around an unwanted (and potentially dangerous) body part" is clearly abuse of language.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by ringo, posted 07-01-2019 2:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by ringo, posted 07-02-2019 11:52 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 258 of 286 (856631)
07-01-2019 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by AZPaul3
07-01-2019 2:48 PM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
True indeed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by AZPaul3, posted 07-01-2019 2:48 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 259 of 286 (856633)
07-01-2019 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Theodoric
07-01-2019 9:14 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
You asked "Still waiting for someone to show a 39 week abortion happening". I gave you an instance. There are others. Sarah Louise Catt, for example (though that was self-induced). That you had to ask me for these examples instead of finding them yourself indicates you haven't really studied the issue, doesn't it?

Now mind you, I didn't say it was widespread. I didn't even say I disagreed with it. I'm just providing you with facts. Like the Casey decision and its implication for post-viability abortions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Theodoric, posted 07-01-2019 9:14 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 260 of 286 (856635)
07-01-2019 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Theodoric
07-01-2019 9:14 PM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
Of course. And there's nothing wrong with your doing so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Theodoric, posted 07-01-2019 9:14 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 265 of 286 (856753)
07-02-2019 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by ringo
07-02-2019 11:39 AM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
From across the pond
quote:
https://www.express.co.uk/...-MP-outrage-at-39-week-abortion

EXCLUSIVE: MP outrage at 39-week abortion

SHOCKED MPs have called for a change to Britain’s “medieval and cruel” abortion laws after a termination was carried out on a baby only days before it was due to be born By Caroline Wheeler PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, Jul 13, 2014

It was aborted 39 weeks into pregnancy under guidelines that allow termination where there is a “significant risk” the child will be disabled.

Department of Health figures show that last year a further three abortions were carried out on mothers who were 38 weeks pregnant and two more on women 37 weeks into pregnancy.

Conservative MP Fiona Bruce, co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Pro-life Group, said: “I do not understand how we can have a law which allows the life of a baby with a disability to be ended at full term. It is a graphic illustration of society’s inconsistency on disability.

“After birth we work hard to ensure equality, but before birth we have laws to prevent the disabled taking their first breath. This medieval, cruel, discriminatory law must change.”

Labour MP Rob Flello added: “We have a Jekyll and Hyde approach to disability. One one hand the entire country can be united in praise of paralympians. On the other we can permit the abortion of children at nine months simply for the crime of having a disability.

NHS guidelines consider a baby is full-term at 37 weeks, though most women go into labour between 38 and 42 weeks into their pregnancy.

Abortion beyond 24 weeks can only legally be carried out if there is a grave risk to the life of the mother or there is severe foetal abnormality.

Such a procedure routinely involves giving the baby an injection, usually of potassium, into its heart so it dies before the process starts.

Last year there were 190 abortions beyond the 24-week limit, almost 20 per cent up on the previous year.

Most were carried out under a legal definition known as Ground E, where there is “substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped”.

Last year a parliamentary commission called for change in the law after hearing rules even allowed abortions at 40 weeks on grounds of disability.

It learned that abortions can be carried out on babies with a cleft lip or club foot, conditions that can be rectified after birth. One doctor reported that on some occasions a wrong diagnosis had been given and the dead foetus was found to have no disability.

So far there has been no official Government response to the report.
IPSO Regulated Copyright ©2019 Express Newspapers. "Daily Express" is a registered trademark. All rights reserved.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 07-02-2019 11:39 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by ringo, posted 07-02-2019 10:11 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 266 of 286 (856755)
07-02-2019 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by ringo
07-02-2019 11:52 AM


Re: Is the fetus a human being? Is it a living creature that we allow you to kill?
Yes, we're all aware that you stand by your story.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by ringo, posted 07-02-2019 11:52 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by ringo, posted 07-02-2019 10:16 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 269 of 286 (856790)
07-02-2019 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by ringo
07-02-2019 10:11 PM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
Read the article again. "One doctor reported that on some occasions a wrong diagnosis had been given and the dead foetus was found to have no disability"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by ringo, posted 07-02-2019 10:11 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by ringo, posted 07-03-2019 12:13 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020