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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 561 of 868 (856004)
06-25-2019 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 559 by ringo
06-25-2019 12:09 PM


Re: Take A Side
One thing we believe, and that is that the arbitrator is most certainly not human.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 559 by ringo, posted 06-25-2019 12:09 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 562 by Theodoric, posted 06-25-2019 4:31 PM Phat has replied
 Message 569 by ringo, posted 06-26-2019 12:20 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 563 of 868 (856007)
06-25-2019 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 558 by jar
06-24-2019 7:31 PM


Re: Take A Side
I understand your position but would comment that your willingness to eternally (if you end up being eternal) ask questions prevents you from having to decide on an answer. You can conveniently browse the showroom without deciding to buy any of the products. Which most honestly makes you an eternal agnostic.(Thus far) So this nonsense that you claim to be a believer only fits within the bylaws of your club. The Chicago Statement assumes a lot of belief, so I can see why you question it, but to judge it places you as your own God. You claim that you would likely laugh in the face of the "God of Calvinism" but more likely you would be on your face....either voluntarily or mandatorily. Then what?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 558 by jar, posted 06-24-2019 7:31 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 566 by jar, posted 06-26-2019 9:08 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 567 by ringo, posted 06-26-2019 11:31 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 564 of 868 (856008)
06-25-2019 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 562 by Theodoric
06-25-2019 4:31 PM


Re: Take A Side
Arbitrator: an independent person or body officially appointed to settle a dispute.
adjudicator arbiter judge umpire referee assistant referee linesman line judge mediator conciliator intervenor intercessor go-between negotiator peacemaker
Jesus is the mediator. he arbitrator. Your exaggerated claims of His non-existence mean little. You have anything else today, Theo?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 562 by Theodoric, posted 06-25-2019 4:31 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 565 by Theodoric, posted 06-25-2019 5:04 PM Phat has replied
 Message 568 by ringo, posted 06-26-2019 11:34 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 570 of 868 (856180)
06-28-2019 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 565 by Theodoric
06-25-2019 5:04 PM


Re: Take A Side
Technically Jesus, as Mediator, is lso in the role of Creator since "through Him all things were created". Its challenging for me to have as honest an argument as possible while holding on to the dogma which I dont question. Jesus is Gods character to me. Thus, the Creator of all seen and unseen is essentially repped through a Man.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 565 by Theodoric, posted 06-25-2019 5:04 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 573 by Theodoric, posted 06-28-2019 3:48 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 571 of 868 (856181)
06-28-2019 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 569 by ringo
06-26-2019 12:20 PM


Re: Take A Side
This is a discussion forum. Discuss something.
OK. So the title of this thread is Who Made God? So lets discuss the "god" known as money. Do we keep chasing this fale idol? Do we stop loving and desiring it?
Or do we simply give it all away in the form of spare change? And who then do we trust to help us retire? The government?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 569 by ringo, posted 06-26-2019 12:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 572 by ringo, posted 06-28-2019 11:40 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 574 of 868 (856392)
06-30-2019 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 492 by AZPaul3
06-20-2019 3:31 PM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
AZPaul3 writes:
t is not just the evil and bloodshed portrayed in your gospel. More it is the evil and bloodshed you christian practitioners plague upon the species.
Your gospel is full of oppression, repression, murder, slaughter and war against innocents. The larger problem is your adherents seek to visit the same on the whole of the population of this planet.
Christian is evil.
You really need to stop listening to the demons in your head. The message is simple. Jesus is Gods character. He lives today. He wants to take you to the next level. Surrender to no religion or no other person or persons but surrender to Him and let Him cleanse you and equip you. Nothing evil about it.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 492 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 3:31 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 577 by AZPaul3, posted 06-30-2019 3:25 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 575 of 868 (856394)
06-30-2019 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 573 by Theodoric
06-28-2019 3:48 PM


Re: Take A Side
Theodoric writes:
Pick a word and defend it. Or not.
OK, I'm sorry if I switched tracks...I get impulsive at times, but for your sake I will stick with our train of thought. Here we go...
TOPIC: WHO MADE GOD?
Tangle writes:
I'm an atheist because I can find no evidence at all - and I do mean none - for a god.
GDR writes:
There is nothing that you will accept as evidence for a god.
ENTER Theodoric, Stage Left:
Theodoric,responding to GDR writes:
He probably would accept the same as I would, namely evidence.
Please provide some so we can consider whether in fact it is evidence or not.
I might interject at this point that the only evidence we have is the believers themselves. Either these people(myself included) were (and are) touched and inspired by the Holy Spirit or we are batshit crazy and delusional. Willfully or otherwise. One problem here is that we are in a spiritual war between good and evil and evil makes sure that we sound as stupid as possible. Hence why some of our nuttier members are the poster children for Christian belief.
Tangle writes:
If there is a god out there he's not the sort you think - he's the non-interventionist kind that pouffed this lot into existence 14bn years ago then found a new toy to play with.
That assumes that God would need to be entertained. No, Tangle He is very much intervening with all of us. Do you want evidence? I am the evidence. I bug you incessantly.
Theodoric writes:
If research does not support the claims it would be stupid to believe the stories. That would define delusion.
The problem here is that you want to believe the research (and more tellingly the integrity of the researchers) in order to corroborate your preexisting world view.
Theodoric,to Faith writes:
I reject your concept of a god totally and completely. If your god existed I would tell him to fuck himself for all of the misery he has caused.
I would love to see such an encounter. I'm quite sure that God would eventually win Theodoric over to His side unless Theodoric prefers to Deify his own intelligence and preserve his free will eternally apart from what he sees as an autocratic God (and religion)
Theo writes:
Now go to church if you want to preach.
You waundered in the door by joining this topic. I'll go easy on you, however. You may think im pompous and arrogant but if so, you can pray for me while you are here in church. I need all the help I can get!!
Theodoric writes:
I think a lot of us atheists have similar stories of our experiences with theists and particularly fundies. We see it here at EVC all the time. Phat does not see it but he is no different than all the other fundies.
Not only are fundies math challenged, but evidently their beliefs strip away self-awareness.
I'll try and keep up. I never claimed to be perfect. My claim essentially is that God is. Anyone who believes that Jesus is a myth has cut themselves off from encountering a human mediator.
Pressie writes:
To quote Judge Judy: "If it doesn't make any sense, it likely is not true."
In general I agree, Pressie. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. When I got saved in 1993, that was extraordinary evidence for me.
AZPaul3 writes:
A prolonged and comprehensive absence of evidence is pretty hard evidence itself. Remember that in science a null result is evidence.
For me, a null result has never been the experience in my life. I live anything but null.
AZPaul3 writes:
You do know that Christianity is a minority religious cult, right? More than half the population of this planet, billions of your fellow human beings, think your cult is a poisonous and evil creed standing against the light and power of (insert other god here).
And as I have recently pointed out in another thread, God uses and has used a minority against a majority. It is a Biblical Theme.
Now...lets get to this argument regarding the word Arbitrator.
Arbitrator: an independent person or body officially appointed to settle a dispute.
adjudicator arbiter judge umpire referee assistant referee linesman line judge mediator conciliator intervenor intercessor go-between negotiator peacemaker
Jesus is the mediator. he arbitrator.
Theodoric writes:
But that is not how you attempted to use it. You said it meant creator too.
Right. Jesus is the Creator. Through Him all things were created.
jar writes:
Are you saying that the duty of a Christian is to just give in to a despot and tyrant just because the tyrant is more powerful?
No, I say that I would oppose such an evil creation. As a Christian I believe I have the duty to Fight the GOOD fight, to run the race. I would almost certainly lose but as a Christian that is still my duty.
So jar...do you believe that Jesus is a despot and/or a tyrant?
ringo,replying to me writes:
Your claims of his existence mean nothing.
You of course have a right to your belief. As I have a right to say you are wrong.
Theodoric writes:
Pick a word and defend it. Or not.
Have i defended arbitrator adequately or not?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 573 by Theodoric, posted 06-28-2019 3:48 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 576 by ringo, posted 06-30-2019 2:42 PM Phat has replied
 Message 580 by Tangle, posted 06-30-2019 4:00 PM Phat has replied
 Message 611 by Theodoric, posted 07-01-2019 9:20 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 578 of 868 (856405)
06-30-2019 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 577 by AZPaul3
06-30-2019 3:25 PM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
Although your argument has merit and I could argue it from both sides, I will only say for now that while most of them(us) are causing more harm than good, I will defend the minority. Lets get specific. name a few examples of specific people doing specific harm. You can even pick on those of us here at EvC.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 577 by AZPaul3, posted 06-30-2019 3:25 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 583 by AZPaul3, posted 06-30-2019 7:23 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 579 of 868 (856409)
06-30-2019 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 576 by ringo
06-30-2019 2:42 PM


Re: Take A Sidse
It's a fact that claims alone have no value. Claims have to have something to back them up.
You have a point. I think what I meant when I asserted that you were wrong is that you are wrong in ...*thinks*...in ...in....well i'm still thinking. Often times I simply shoot these posts back to you in order to carry on the argument. I even had one prepared for you but in retrospect it was simply another attempt by me to articulate why I am right. What I'm starting to realize is that me being right does not automatically make you wrong. Of course I think in these terms due to the classical way that arguments proceed.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 576 by ringo, posted 06-30-2019 2:42 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 594 by ringo, posted 07-01-2019 9:40 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 581 of 868 (856412)
06-30-2019 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 580 by Tangle
06-30-2019 4:00 PM


Re: Take A Side

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 580 by Tangle, posted 06-30-2019 4:00 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 582 by jar, posted 06-30-2019 4:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 591 by Faith, posted 07-01-2019 7:56 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 586 of 868 (856463)
07-01-2019 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 583 by AZPaul3
06-30-2019 7:23 PM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
Interesting and sobering! Your article(s) exposed the rotten core of extremist Christianity. I would claim that the fringe does not speak for the majority, but if I am honest with myself, I can see some of my own adopted beliefs within the fringe.
quote:
In Ken Stern’s book on the militias, A Force Upon the Plain, Toole explained how Identity recruitment works:
“At the front end, it’s picking up lots and lots of people by hitting on issues that have wide appeal, like gun control and environmental restrictions, which enrage many people here out West. Then you go a little bit further into the funnel, and it’s about ideology, about the oppressiveness of the federal government. Then, further in, you get into the belief systems. The conspiracy . Finally, at the narrow end of the funnel, you’ve drawn in the hard core, where you get someone like Tim McVey.”
Many of the Christians that I know would claim that the extremists do not represent real, true Christianity. I recall something that jar taught me a few years ago which stuck in my mind:
jar,in belief statement writes:
Recently the question was asked whether or not I consider Christianity to be evil and if I think Fundamentalists and Evangelical Christians are evil. For the record, I do not think Christianity is evil, nor do I think Fundamentalists and Evangelicals are evil.
As a Christian I think one of the first things needed is some personal honesty. That is, it seems to me, a basic tenet and requirement of the faith, the religion called Christianity. It is inherent in the confession. We are expected to honestly look at ourselves, our lives and our behavior and see where we have done wrong, where we have failed to do right, to acknowledge those failings and try to do better in the future.
When I was little I also believed, believed very strongly that Christians were good and everybody else was wrong.
As we grow and learn more we hopefully gain from the mistakes we made in the past.
We are the sum of our experiences.
I am also a Christian. As I see Christianity is both a set of teachings and also the body, the communion of Christians down through the ages. Some Christians were great, some evil, most simply forgotten. All though were Christian.
Later I learned more of the history of this thing, this communion called Christianity. What I learned was not always pleasant, much in fact was horrific. Very little was as simple or serene as what I had been taught.
What I learned was that down through the ages many horrific things were done in the name of Christianity and by Christians. Protestants oppressed Catholics, Catholics oppressed Protestants, and both oppressed every other religion. Down through the ages the Jew came in for special attention, being expelled from nearly every country and their property seized. Time after time it happened.
I learned about how the Native Americans were taken from their homes, given new names, had their hair cut, forbidden to speak their own language, sent to Christian Schools where they had to learn a new religion, how their old religion was mocked and forbidden.
I learned how the Codices and tablets were burned by the Padres that accompanied the Conquistadores, what happened in Hawaii, what happened throughout South and Central America.
I saw the white church members standing at the curbs shouting “Let the dogs loose” or “Turn on the hoses”, and saw the Christian Schools popping up like toadstools as the white Christian parents pulled their kids out of public school so they would not have to sit next to a monkey. I saw churches that had been bombed or burned out, bodies of people working for equal rights after they had been shot, sometimes mutilated.
I look around today and see other Christians shouting “God hates Fags” and voting time after time to ban same-sex marriages and claiming that Islam is barbaric.
Christianity must, IMHO, accept responsibility for the evil as well as the good done in its name.
In discussions at EvC and at other places, when the more horrific acts are brought up, one response I often hear is “They were not real Christians” or “That is not what Christ taught.” I disagree with the former, and agree with the later. I also think that using either as an excuse or as a way to shirk responsibility is dishonest. Granted it is not what Christ taught but it IS what Christians did, and in every case I examined, the people were honest, sincere and believed strongly that what they were doing was right and that it was the Christian thing to do. They were all sure that they were morally right.
The Missionary teacher that helped bring the poor savages to the Missionary School, who clothed the kids, cut their hair, gave them good Christian Names, taught them to read and maybe even write, taught them about GOD did so to save the kids souls.
The Padre that accompanied the Conquistadors and that burned the Codices did it for what they saw as the best of reasons, saving souls. This refrain has been repeated time after time and over issue after issue. It is only later, when we look back on the sermons written on how to civilize the savage, what the place of the Blackman in society is, on the terrible wrong we did in destroying cultures and beliefs that we realize how wrong we were.
If we are to avoid make such errors in the future, I believe we must honestly acknowledge what we have done in the past, that “but by the grace of GOD” those people could be us and that we too are capable of committing such horrific acts. If we try to claim that they were somehow different than us, that they were not real Christians, then I fear we are bound to continue down that path.
Sometimes i find myself agreeing with the old curmudgeon from Texas.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 583 by AZPaul3, posted 06-30-2019 7:23 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 587 by Tangle, posted 07-01-2019 3:56 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 588 of 868 (856465)
07-01-2019 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 587 by Tangle
07-01-2019 3:56 AM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
I listen to Evangelical Podcasts all night and have yet to hear any sermon promising blind people that they can see.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by Tangle, posted 07-01-2019 3:56 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 589 by Tangle, posted 07-01-2019 7:25 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 595 of 868 (856526)
07-01-2019 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 591 by Faith
07-01-2019 7:56 AM


Re: Take A Side
It was a random meme from a movie known as Goodfellas. I wanted to capture an image of people laughing. I suppose that memes are dead to some...meaningless. Or we could say memingless

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 591 by Faith, posted 07-01-2019 7:56 AM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 626 of 868 (856777)
07-02-2019 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 622 by Faith
07-02-2019 3:41 PM


How To Determine Chosen Human Instruments
Remember the whole argument concerning why and how God hardened Pharaoh's Heart?
Renewing Your Mind | The Hardening of Pharaoh's Heart | Jul 2, 2019
Consider the implications IF believers by definition *did* have a special awareness of the workings of God, awareness of His presence, and wisdom to explain the divine plan.
I for one know that I am not infallible...I often have a lot of human crap filter through my online evangelism attempts. I always like to say that satan prefers the weakest among believers to be allowed to look as stupid and clueless as possible so as to discredit the whole product. This is why I share the videos of other teachers who I believe to be more stable than I am and better able to explain the concepts of the methodology of belief and the wisdom behind the ensuing discernment.
I realize that both you and I are able to present small doses of truth to the skeptical audience here in our mission field. It is even predicted that since humanity hated Jesus (the secular spirit of the age) that it (that spirit of antichrist) will indeed hate us too. And it will come through many of the members of EvC. But lets look at them with compassion, as Jesus would do. Can you really blame them for being angry at Christians? We are often our own worst enemy and a poor advertisement for the Messiah Whom represented the Creator Of All Seen And Unseen.
I dont think Percy hates us ...we do improve his ratings, after all ...but both you and I can appear a bit whack-o some times.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 622 by Faith, posted 07-02-2019 3:41 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 627 by Tangle, posted 07-03-2019 1:21 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 633 of 868 (856865)
07-03-2019 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 627 by Tangle
07-03-2019 1:21 AM


Re: How To Determine Chosen Human Instruments
Tangle writes:
Neither of you have any formal training in anything yet all of a sudden you start claiming to be a teacher and Faith, from her armchair, who has never read a research paper in any discipline, tells us that archaeology, physics, biology, astronomy, palaeontology, geology and molecular genetics are all so wrong that we might as well throw them all away and start again. And we should do it because of a stone age myth composed of folk legends.
The jury is still out regarding this myth. Even atheists must admit that there is a good probability that the social media driven information age, coupled with the historical tendency of autocratic dictators to use technology to attempt to enslave a persecuted group makes for the liklihood of a conflict globally approaching the size and scope of a World War.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 627 by Tangle, posted 07-03-2019 1:21 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 634 by Tangle, posted 07-03-2019 4:58 PM Phat has replied

  
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