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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 916 of 3207 (856524)
07-01-2019 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 901 by AZPaul3
06-30-2019 11:41 PM


Re: You're not looking hard enough
AZP3 writes:
Christian hate apparently is wider spread than I thought. Is there anything human that you people don't hate?
I Love EvC!
(I thinki we are human... *checks*

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 901 by AZPaul3, posted 06-30-2019 11:41 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 917 of 3207 (856529)
07-01-2019 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 909 by GDR
07-01-2019 10:58 AM


Re: chances
GDR writes:
... for either of us to say we "know" that God doesn't exist would mean absolute knowledge.
No. I don't acknowledge the possibility of "absolute" knowledge at all. I'm talking about objective knowledge.
GDR writes:
Using Stile's apparent definition I am pleased to announce that I "know" God does exist....
No, you don't. Stile's "knowledge" is based on an objective lack of evidence. Your belief is strictly subjective.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 909 by GDR, posted 07-01-2019 10:58 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 919 by GDR, posted 07-01-2019 8:53 PM ringo has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 918 of 3207 (856610)
07-01-2019 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 915 by PaulK
07-01-2019 1:28 PM


Re: You're not looking hard enough
GDR writes:
If it is obvious then tell me. What is the non-intelligent process that began the evolutionary process?
PaulK writes:
Interesting that you should ask a question which doesn’t touch on the reasons why the points are obvious - and one I’ve already answered in this thread.
But to explain why the points are obvious.
Inventing positions for your opponents is less than honest and does nothing to refute their actual positions.
Attributing human morality to a moral creator begs the question of where that creator got it’s morality from. Without any hint of an answer to that - indeed with the implicit rejection of other causes - a moral creator is the obvious answer. Thus you invite an infinite regress. Attributing human morality to causes that are not themselves moral obviously does not beg the question. The regress doesn’t even get started.
I asked a question to which you give no answer at all. This thread isn't about the morality of a deity but about whether God exists at all. You and others keep saying that there is objective evidence to support Stile's opening question. What is that objective evidence? The only way morality plays into this is that conscious intelligent creatures have resulted from the evolutionary process.
I am merely saying that whether we choose an intelligent root cause for life as we know it or a non-intelligent root is entirely subjective and can be argued only on a subjective basis. You guys keep saying that there is objective evidence for Stile's claim. What is it?
PaulK writes:
What you ask doesn’t matter. You can’t force me into believing an infinite regress just by asking questions. And I don’t even need to evade the questions the way you do. So, I’ll suggest this. The process that formed our universe is a consequence of the existence of space-time.
Please explain the leap from space time to conscious life to me. That is quite a breath-taking leap. As a matter of fact that kind of leap, subjectively speaking, sounds very god-like.
Paulk writes:
That isn’t what you said in Message 897:
..but what you quoted was my subjective position. I claim no objective evidence to support it. My view is simply that if God is outside of time and not subject to change the way we experience it, then the question of who what created God becomes moot.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 915 by PaulK, posted 07-01-2019 1:28 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 923 by PaulK, posted 07-01-2019 11:58 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 919 of 3207 (856611)
07-01-2019 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 917 by ringo
07-01-2019 1:50 PM


Re: chances
ringo writes:
No. I don't acknowledge the possibility of "absolute" knowledge at all. I'm talking about objective knowledge.
What is the objective evidence for Stile's claim?
ringo writes:
No, you don't. Stile's "knowledge" is based on an objective lack of evidence. Your belief is strictly subjective.
In that case I can claim that there is a God because there is an objective lack of evidence for non-intelligent origins to life or the evolutionary process.
AbE Happy Canada Day.
Edited by GDR, : No reason given.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 917 by ringo, posted 07-01-2019 1:50 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 956 by ringo, posted 07-02-2019 12:00 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 920 of 3207 (856613)
07-01-2019 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 901 by AZPaul3
06-30-2019 11:41 PM


Re: You're not looking hard enough
AZPaul3 writes:
Christian hate apparently is wider spread than I thought. Is there anything human that you people don't hate?
That' is what fundamentalism can become.. It becomes about despising those who disagree with you which is completely at odds with Jesus' "love your enemy". Sure we hate the things some people do but we go still go on loving them. A good example of that in action was in the case of Dale Lang which I mentioned earlier in this thread, who was a guy who visited and counselled the young man who had murdered his son.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 901 by AZPaul3, posted 06-30-2019 11:41 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 921 of 3207 (856639)
07-01-2019 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 800 by Hyroglyphx
06-25-2019 10:56 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Hyroglyphx writes:
Yes, I think gay people should be treated equally.
You support “gay” rights, which makes you a cultural Marxist. In other words, you worship the Great False god of Equality. Btw, there is no equality between heterosexuality and bestiality.
Never once voted for a Democrat ever in my life... I'm 42 years old.
Voting for Bernie Sanders is even worse than voting for the Democrats.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-25-2019 10:56 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 922 of 3207 (856640)
07-01-2019 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 815 by Tanypteryx
06-26-2019 9:57 PM


Re: Of Spirits and the After-Life
Tanypteryx writes:
You are pretty embarrassing yourself.
I know, but thanks anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 815 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-26-2019 9:57 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 923 of 3207 (856643)
07-01-2019 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 918 by GDR
07-01-2019 8:50 PM


Re: You're not looking hard enough
quote:
I asked a question to which you give no answer at all.
I answered all the relevant questions and the other I had already answered in this thread.
quote:
This thread isn't about the morality of a deity but about whether God exists at all.
And I am offering a critique of your argument. Funny how you insist on irrelevancies while objecting to relevant points.
quote:
You and others keep saying that there is objective evidence to support Stile's opening question
I don’t. I’m just critiquing your argument.
quote:
I am merely saying that whether we choose an intelligent root cause for life as we know it or a non-intelligent root is entirely subjective and can be argued only on a subjective basis.
In reality you were attempting to argue that your position was more rational and I was pointing out that that was untrue.
quote:
You guys keep saying that there is objective evidence for Stile's claim. What is it?
If I did, remind me of the post where I made that claim.
quote:
Please explain the leap from space time to conscious life to me. That is quite a breath-taking leap. As a matter of fact that kind of leap, subjectively speaking, sounds very god-like.
And there is a lot of science to fill it, cosmology covers the origin of our universe and it’s early development, astronomy and related disciplines cover the formation of stars, galaxies and planets, abiogenesis covers the origin of life and evolution it’s subsequent development.
Let us also note that this question is yet another diversion - and one that concedes my point. You claimed that my views entailed an infinite regress, yet you do not even attempt to show that.
quote:
.....but what you quoted was my subjective position.
Which is yet another evasion into irrelevancy. A subjective answer is still an answer. An explanation is still an explanation even if it is a subjective belief.
As for God, Phat says the believers are the evidence. What does your evasion and diversion and your refusal to engage in honest discussion tell us ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 918 by GDR, posted 07-01-2019 8:50 PM GDR has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 924 of 3207 (856645)
07-02-2019 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 785 by Hyroglyphx
06-25-2019 2:34 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Hyproglyphx writes:
You and I may disagree with the content on a personal level, as I think I've been very quick to point out with Dredge, but if he is too afraid to speak his mind on account of government intrusion,
I wasn’t referring to government intrusion; I was referring to the anti-free-speech norms of political correctness that prevail on most online forum sites.
espousing racist ideology
How do you define “racist ideology”?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 785 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-25-2019 2:34 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 925 of 3207 (856646)
07-02-2019 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 789 by vimesey
06-25-2019 9:38 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
In professional cyclist there’s a German (white) sprinter nicknamed “Gorilla”, on account of his powerful physique. No one bats an eyelid. But if someone called a negro, “Gorilla”, suddenly that’s a “hate crime” that will land you in court.
The term “white trash” is often used to refer to white people of low socio-economic standing. No one bats an eyelid. However, if anyone publicly referred to poor negroes as “black trash”, all hell would break loose and the offender would find himself in court charged with a “hate crime”.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 789 by vimesey, posted 06-25-2019 9:38 AM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 927 by AZPaul3, posted 07-02-2019 12:09 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 926 of 3207 (856647)
07-02-2019 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 794 by DrJones*
06-25-2019 10:07 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
DrJones writes:
there is no darwinist belief system
Tell that to all those atheists out there who believe humans descended from bacteria via a natural process of Darwinian evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 794 by DrJones*, posted 06-25-2019 10:07 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 932 by DrJones*, posted 07-02-2019 12:24 AM Dredge has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 927 of 3207 (856649)
07-02-2019 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 925 by Dredge
07-02-2019 12:02 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
But if someone called a negro, “Gorilla”, suddenly that’s a “hate crime” that will land you in court.
However, if anyone publicly referred to poor negroes as “black trash”, all hell would break loose and the offender would find himself in court charged with a “hate crime”
Got proof?
I like the gorilla one. Show me the specifics on that one, especially the indictment.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 925 by Dredge, posted 07-02-2019 12:02 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 928 of 3207 (856651)
07-02-2019 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 809 by GDR
06-26-2019 9:57 AM


Re: Of Spirits and the After-Life
GDR writes:
Dredge writes:
Catholic can't believe what they like - they must accept all the doctrines and dogmas of the Church.
This is simply another false idol that Jesus also spoke out strongly against. This is what happens to those who worship and make a false idol out of their church
Which fake, wannabe church do you belong to? Not the same one as that imposter, Desmond Tutu, I hope.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 809 by GDR, posted 06-26-2019 9:57 AM GDR has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 929 of 3207 (856652)
07-02-2019 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 807 by Stile
06-26-2019 8:22 AM


Re: I know that God exists
Stile writes:
Untrue.
You don't get to say what I want or don't want. I do.
And I do, actually, want God to exist.
I think it would be great if the weak were protected, if (good) prayers were answered, if some benevolent, all-powerful being could provide a sense of security and peace.
It's just that such things have been tested, and they've been identified to be equivalent to "nothing is there."
Here’s how it works:
If you want to believe in (a) God, you’ll find a way.
If you don’t want to believe in (a) God, you’ll find a way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 807 by Stile, posted 06-26-2019 8:22 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 950 by Stile, posted 07-02-2019 10:16 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 930 of 3207 (856653)
07-02-2019 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 804 by AZPaul3
06-26-2019 1:33 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
AZPaul3 writes:
Right. You just pass judgement condemning to hell the whole of the human race all at once and before we're even born.
Sorry, that one went clear over my head. What are you talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 804 by AZPaul3, posted 06-26-2019 1:33 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 935 by AZPaul3, posted 07-02-2019 12:32 AM Dredge has not replied

  
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