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Author Topic:   A test for claimed knowledge of how macroevolution occurs
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 237 of 785 (855118)
06-16-2019 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Faith
06-16-2019 2:47 PM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
So you maybe think the genome knew back in 1811 that this mutation was going to be needed in 40 years? And that by 1895 it would cover 95+% of the population?

I suppose that is the kind of majik religionists believe.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 244 of 785 (855132)
06-16-2019 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Faith
06-16-2019 3:07 PM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
The variant wouldn't have been there if the mutation had not happened. No black moths were seen in the 1811 observations or before. By mid-1800s the population was riddled with them and by the end of the century it was the norm in the population.

I suspect PaulK is correct. Such melanin mutations are not rare and could have come and gone several times in a large population over many centuries. So you are correct. This one crept up just in time (+-40 years)

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 257 of 785 (855158)
06-17-2019 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by PaulK
06-17-2019 12:31 AM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
Ahh, so it was there all the time. How clever of the DNA to know that and make the switch just in time.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 260 of 785 (855161)
06-17-2019 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by 4petdinos
06-17-2019 1:07 AM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
Quadrupole Domesticated Dinosauria. The name. The avatar. The whole meme. Very nice.

Welcome to EvC, 4petdinos. Pull up a chair.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 296 of 785 (855225)
06-17-2019 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Faith
06-17-2019 6:10 PM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
What kind of evidence might you be looking for? How can this intricate ocean of Earth's DNA chemistry *not* change. So changes happened, yes?

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 6:10 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 6:25 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 304 of 785 (855233)
06-17-2019 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 299 by Faith
06-17-2019 6:25 PM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
I've asked for any evidence that can change the structure of a genome, but all mutations can do is change what's IN the genome,

What is the difference between structure of a genome and mutations that change what's IN the genome? What structure?

change one allele into another, but alleles determine traits that belong to the creature the genome belongs to

Absolutely.

All I see is assumptions that the differences between apes, such as chimps, and humans, are nothing but mutations.

What else would they be if not changes from a far earlier genome?

I know we're in Never-Never Land and nothing is ever going to make sense.

Welcome to Earth, Human.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 6:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 6:44 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 306 of 785 (855235)
06-17-2019 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by Faith
06-17-2019 6:44 PM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
No one is arguing against the fact that the DNA space is as near infinite. That is not the issue.

What is the issue is what is the DNA space *available* under what circumstances.

We don’t really care how many combinations there theoretically could be, we are only interested in the combinations that actually are.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 6:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 7:06 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 308 of 785 (855238)
06-17-2019 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 307 by Faith
06-17-2019 7:06 PM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
You were saying the genome is way big and can more then handle the number of alleles.

I was saying the genome *is* big but it is finite and that not every allele possible could be in there. So the ones that were not there to begin with had to get into this limited genome somehow.

No one is arguing against cats make cats and chimps make chimps.

We’re arguing that genomes change over time. Like everything else in this universe.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 7:06 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 310 of 785 (855247)
06-17-2019 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Faith
06-17-2019 7:58 PM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
So your definition of change is more moving things around than creating something new? And yet you acknowledge that mutations, like SNPs, do happen. A single SNP would make a change. Make something new. Yes?

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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 Message 309 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 7:58 PM Faith has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 312 of 785 (855249)
06-17-2019 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Faith
06-17-2019 7:58 PM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
I believe the genetic system is broken the way all llfe is broken, with death and disease etc., and that mutations are a form of disease and also contribute to death of genetic variability.

Thus the religion, Gloomy Jane.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 7:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 9:11 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 314 of 785 (855252)
06-17-2019 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by Faith
06-17-2019 9:11 PM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
When a discussion of this type gets to the level of religion it really is over.

The only thing left then is ridicule and I don't feel like making fun of my favorite demented crazy lady right now. Maybe later.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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 Message 313 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 9:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 458 of 785 (855909)
06-24-2019 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 442 by Faith
06-24-2019 2:34 PM


You can't get "patterns of common ancestry" from random mutations.

Yeah, ya can.

The whole point of this part of your discussions with PaulK is that those random mutations as part of the ToE is the only logical and evidenced explanation there is.

You are unable to provide an alternative explanation of how separate "kind" creation could possibly manifest itself as the patterns of common ancestry we see in the world.

Or are you going to claim common ancestry is caused by mutant genes that don't do anything?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 442 by Faith, posted 06-24-2019 2:34 PM Faith has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 462 of 785 (855920)
06-24-2019 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 461 by Faith
06-24-2019 5:20 PM


Then what is it in creation theory that could cause the appearance of such deep common ancestry?

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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 Message 461 by Faith, posted 06-24-2019 5:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 634 of 785 (856624)
07-01-2019 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 633 by RAZD
07-01-2019 10:05 PM


Re: The genetic loss idée fixe vs reality
Hey RAZD,

I saw your pretty pictures but I don't recognize any of them. What kind of birds are these?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 698 of 785 (857026)
07-05-2019 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 696 by Sarah Bellum
07-04-2019 10:36 PM


Re: Flood stuff
Can’t you believe in majik from the old girl’s heart
How the majik can tell you anything that you want
Cuz it’s majik and the strata is bolder
Got all laid down at once with the fossils in order

You know the fluddy is majik that’ll save your soul
We all singin' and dancin' to god’s own rock and roll
Yes, it’s majik (yah ya know it's majik)
Gotta believe in majik (yah ya know it's majik)


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 696 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-04-2019 10:36 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
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