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Author | Topic: Did the Flood really happen? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17918 Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
quote: Do you have actual figures ? Of course not.
quote: The usual estimates account for pressure which is required. Evidence that a relatively small pressure increase can speed lithification by several orders of magnitude ?
quote: And long periods of time explain even the numbers better. Your “best evidence” is evidence against you. Try thinking about that.
quote: You do invent some crazy fantasies. How does that work ?
quote: in your crazy fantasies. You have never come up with any evidence or even an explanation that makes sense.
quote: You’ve had years to do it. And you still have nothing but fantasies and denial.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
Faith writes: I've explained this a million times before and I know you've seen it but you don't llke it so you pretend I never said it. You've made up a story a million times before which is utter shit. You'll notice that if someone says something that does not contradict settled science and is backed by credible evidence, it's not discussed again. But if someone makes stuff up on the hoof that is patently unevidenced bullshit and flies in the face of known facts, we tend to keep on saying it.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1698 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yeah, well I do expect the logic of it to make sense to some but it doesn't and I don't care any more.
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Larni Member (Idle past 108 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined:
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Hold on, where in the Bible does it say there was an ice age?
The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1659 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... Sedimentary layers of course are far more easily explained as the product of the Flood than they are the natural occurrence over hundreds of millions of years. You either see it or you don't. Correction
Sedimentary layers of course are far more easily explained as the natural occurrence over hundreds of millions of years than they are the product of the Flood. You either see it or you don't. This is because the temporal-spatial matrix of all known fossils supports the long term deposition of sediments and fossils, and not the jumbled mess of flood debris. Even just the relative ages of the sediments and fossils from fully developed ecologies adds up to a minimum period well in excess of a single year of flooding. See Trilobites, Mountains and Marine Deposits - Evidence of a flood?. In addition each layer correlates with radiometric dates consistent with extreme age (even just using the current present amounts of radioactive material and ignoring for now the validity of calculated dates) and not the jumbled mess of flood debris.
... . You either see it or you don't. Indeed. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1698 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It doesn't say there was a Greenland either, or a North America or continental drift. Putting together a scenario for the Flood has to take into account whatever seems to apply as long as it doesn't contradict the Bible, and I don't see how any of that does.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1698 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yeah I know, but a whole stack miles deep of such neat flat straight layers of different kinds of specific sediments just doesn't fit with the vagaries of everyday llfe, which llfe we llve on a pretty jumbled-up dirt surface, which is what I'd expect of all periods in the history of the earth myself.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Well, all you have for your dates is subjective shuffling of whatever historical events you ***** you know. Yet more utter bullshit from you Faith. What we have is absolute evidence in the form of artifacts and a variety of separate lines of dating that again rely on reality. There is no question about either the fact that those sites show continuous occupation for over 6000 years or that there are two mutually exclusive flood stories in the Bible. To deny either requires either willful ignorance or utter dishonest or severe delusion to the extent of being totally disconnected from reality.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
Faith writes: Yeah, well I do expect the logic of it to make sense to some but it doesn't and I don't care any more. There's no logic in it, you just made up a story. The story you made up could be called a hypothesis, but then you'd need evidence to support it. And the evidence does the opposite. So it's just bullshit.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 666 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Why not?
There is simply no comparison with a local flood.... Faith writes:
Every particle is deposited individually, so there's no fundamental difference between a small pile of particles and a big pile of particles.
It's quantity for starters.... Faith writes:
Yup. Does constant rain for forty days and nights sounds like it can be compared to a local flood?quote: Faith writes:
I'm not asking you to imagine a really big flood. I'm asking you how you would distinguish the results of a really big one from a million little ones. Specifically. What would be different? Multiply by millions.... We see lots of little floods as they happen and we see the layers that they deposit, so we know very well what little-flood layers look like. We see the same kind of layers all over the world, whether we saw them being deposited or not. We do not see any "special" layers that can not be explained by the little floods that we see all the time. So how can you tell, specifically, which ones were deposited by little floods and which ones were deposited by The Big Flood?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18647 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Would you say that the flood stories were parables and teachable moments? What was the motive of the stories being recorded?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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edge Member (Idle past 1960 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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Would you say that the flood stories were parables and teachable moments? What was the motive of the stories being recorded?
Are you talking about the flood story of the Bible or all of the many flood stories told throughout history? There are probably many reasons for the stories and some are simply historical recollections such as the annual floods of the Nile River.
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Phat Member Posts: 18647 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Good point,. I'll never win this argument because though most apologists believe the Bible to be divinely inspired, I need to somehow defend the absolute idea of God found in its pages from the numerous other definitions of God, god, and GOD proposed by innumerable religions, philosophies and assertions. I think I will just stick to my basic arguments that I make in my own words as my understanding grows.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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jar Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Would you say that the flood stories were parables and teachable moments? What was the motive of the stories being recorded? I would say they are most certainly propaganda, another Just So Story and marketing. They explain why there are rainbows but also sell the concept of an all powerful despot that can kill everything but then picked YOUR ANCESTORS as something special and so saved.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17918 Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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I think the question is which Flood stories you are talking about. The Biblical version is an amalgam of two variants of an older story, going back at least to the Sumerians.
The compiler of the Biblical story may have had quite different motives from the original creator of the story. One question to ask yourself is why were two differing versions merged together, not by creating a fully harmonised synthesis of the two but by keeping two versions of some of the events.
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