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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Sarah Bellum
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Posts: 413
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 46 of 1255 (857211)
07-06-2019 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Faith
07-06-2019 9:50 AM


Re: By Faith from
How could the Greenland ice sheet develop in only a few thousand years, many more than three or four thousand annual ice layers are found in ice cores.

A geological record of many strata, of varying types including both sedimentary and igneous layers is far better explained by multiple different processes over the ages than by one catastrophic flood event.


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 Message 24 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 9:50 AM Faith has responded

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Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 47 of 1255 (857218)
07-06-2019 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Faith
07-06-2019 11:01 AM


Re: By Faith from
But how could the temperature drop so suddenly?

Hello by the way, long time no see.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 31180
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 48 of 1255 (857221)
07-06-2019 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Larni
07-06-2019 4:47 PM


the ice age after the flood also froze a contemporary of Adam
Also, it's very interesting that none of the various unknown authors that covered the events post fantasy floods seemed to notice any temperature drop. Nor does Faiths fantasy explain how a contemporary of Adam ended up frozen in a glacier long before the imaginary floods.

Edited by jar, : fix sub title


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4415
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 49 of 1255 (857222)
07-06-2019 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
07-06-2019 5:35 PM


Adam and Steve
Isn't that Steve, Adam's ex-lover?

When the three of them were kicked out of Eden and the sin of faggotism developed from the fall from perfection god had Steve killed leaving Adam no option than to cleave to Eve as the second, less perfect, choice?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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jar
Member
Posts: 31180
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 50 of 1255 (857224)
07-06-2019 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by AZPaul3
07-06-2019 5:54 PM


Re: Adam and Steve
Maybe Steve became Eve after the operation.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

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Faith
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Posts: 32705
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 51 of 1255 (857227)
07-06-2019 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Larni
07-06-2019 4:47 PM


Re: By Faith from
Would a hundred years be "suddenly?"

Hello back. Nice to hear a friendly voice. And how is your little doll of a baby boy? -- who must not be a baby any more.


This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 32705
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 52 of 1255 (857230)
07-06-2019 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Sarah Bellum
07-06-2019 3:40 PM


Re: By Faith from
The igneous layers are pretty rare and most of them are clearly dikes and sills that rose as magma after the sedimentary strate were laid down. Besides which there is still the problem of the perfect straightness and flatness of the sedimentary layers as well as their simple one-sediment composition in so many cases, that defies the whole idea of such regular deposition over millions of years to be the burial grounds of different collections of fossils.
This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 32705
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 53 of 1255 (857232)
07-06-2019 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Sarah Bellum
07-06-2019 3:40 PM


Re: By Faith from
The question is whether the tree rings and the ice cores really consistently represent ANNUAL rings. It's possible they don't. In any case as I said I put them on your side of the issue.
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Replies to this message:
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Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 54 of 1255 (857234)
07-06-2019 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
07-06-2019 7:14 PM


Re: By Faith from
He turned four this April! He’ll be starting reception in September and has his little school uniform all ready.

My wife and I are camping with him in our back garden as I type (it’s nearly 1 am here) and he’s snoring softly, lol!


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 7:14 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Pollux
Member
Posts: 251
Joined: 11-13-2011


(3)
Message 55 of 1255 (857236)
07-06-2019 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
07-06-2019 7:54 PM


Ice cores
The ice cores show an increase in lead at the count equivalent to a few hundred years BC when lead started being used a lot in plumbing. There is a decrease in the count equivalent to the Dark ages, then increase for the Industrial Revolution. This is good evidence that the ice layers are annual.

There is no apparent change in the appearance of the layers as you go deeper, and there are also many tests done including O 18/O 16 ratios, Ca, NO3, Na. On 3 Greenland cores totalling nearly 6 Km of ice 175,000 isotope tests and 1,000,000 measurements of impurities were done.

No evidence of a Flood there, and the count is about 80,000.

There is a reasonable chance that if this actually represented one recent Ice-age, some of the scientists would have noticed, but people at CMI and AIG sit back in in their armchairs and say that is what happened.


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 Message 53 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 7:54 PM Faith has responded

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Pollux
Member
Posts: 251
Joined: 11-13-2011


Message 56 of 1255 (857237)
07-06-2019 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
07-06-2019 7:54 PM


There's more
The eruption of Toba in Indonesia is considered the biggest in a long time - 30-40 times Krakatau. It is RM dated at about 74000 years ago. Toba ash is found in India with human artefacts above and below. There is a marked spike in volcanic gases in ice cores at the expected count.

Cores from the bed of Lake Malawi in Africa show a linear increase in C14 date as you go deeper, reaching 50,000 at about 28 metres. At 42 metres as you would expect there is a layer of Toba ash. So Toba date is shown by ice-core count and 2 different RM methods.

A Flood could not sort Toba's eruption products this way, let alone seem to miss the mega-huge amount of volcanism that has to be squeezed in somewhere to account for the volcanic residues seen on the Earth, if it is supposed to have occurred around the Flood.


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 Message 53 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 7:54 PM Faith has responded

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 3643
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 57 of 1255 (857238)
07-06-2019 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Sarah Bellum
07-05-2019 11:20 AM


Re: Then there is the matter of Index Fossils
Is "Floodites" like "Luddites"?

Actually, the Luddites are generally misunderstood. And have some relevance in our present times, though not in the manner that you may think.

The term arose around 1812, at the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. The Luddites were textile weavers. It was a skillful craft that took years to master. They made a good living at it and could set their own work hours (not uncommon among craftsmen of the time, since the Clock had not yet become Master). Of course, the cost of their products reflected their time and their skills.

Then the weaving mills were invented that could produce yards and yards of fabric in a fraction of the time that a weaver could. And all the skill you would ever need to operate the machinery could be gained within a day or two. And the cost of the fabric produced was far less than you could possibly get from a Luddite. Furthermore, the worker was no longer valued. A Luddite had inherent value because of his skill (like my own inherent value because of my software design skills, before I retired), but a weaving mill operator who needed minimal skill was very easily replaced and hence expendable (like so many American workers currently, especially as their jobs keep getting shipped out overseas where labor is cheaper).

The Luddites rebelled against the Industrial Revolution because they saw it destroying their entire livelihood, which it was doing. It wasn't just the abstract idea of progress that they were fighting (as they are now charged with and stigmatized for), but rather the very machines that were replacing them and their only way to make a living. We've had several movies and novels about that very struggle, albeit set in more modern or slightly future times (Max Headroom's series of stories set "Twenty minutes into the future.")

The Industrial Revolution moved inexorably on, doing what unbridled capitalism does: devouring everything in its path (as it still seeks to do today). Within less than half a century later, the problems it was creating gave rise to the philosophies of Karl Marx * and the development of socialism, as well as unionism. Socialism predicted that the workers would rise up in a revolution against their oppressors, but I would argue that the rise of unionism, the workers organizing themselves in order to negotiate better working conditions, helped to stave off that "inevitable revolution" -- the extreme conditions in Russia (famine, an unending war with Germany that no sane government could negotiate it out of (the Bolsheviks did negotiate that horrific peace, the Brest-Litovsk Treaty, but not in good faith), etc).

 

 

Karl Marx *

Do you remember the National Lampoon magazine from the 1970's? (sorry, I suddenly realized that, because of your Auntie Bellum, I might need to specify the century). Netflix still has the dramatization of its founding, "A Futile and ****** Gesture." There was also an actual documentary, National Lampoon: Drunk Stoned Brilliant Dead, but it's apparently no longer on Netflix. Did you know that SNL's original "Not Quite Ready for Prime Time Players" had mostly been snaked out from National Lampoon's radio content?

Meanwhile in Germany in the early 70's, there was Pardon! (na suche mal das Englishe selbst), copies of which I picked up when working there summers in '73 and '74 (the events of Netflix' The Same Sky take place in 1974, where my own experience with magazine covers agrees with the show -- tits and more all over the magazine cover pages -- in many cases in the grocery store, full frontal female nudity on family magazines, some with articles about full frontal nudes of males of other lands).

In one of my copies of Pardon! is a centerfold in black printed on red (ie, to prevent xerox copies). I'm trying to present the proper impact here by first presenting one line of text, then the second once you have seen the graphic. The first line of text reads: "The Marx Brothers". The graphic is of Groucho, Harpo, Chico, and Karl. The second line reads: "Why Marxism is so popular."

Share and enjoy!

I still have a centerfold from that Pardon! magazine. Probably not reproducible.

If you follow the Netflix episode of Genius of the Modern World on Karl Marx, you will see that his Das Kapital is extremely dense. It consistents mainly of laborious documentation of the exploitation of all classes of workers of all imaginable ages. It is what, more than a century later, unrestrained capitalism wants to do to us yet again.


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 Message 14 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2019 11:20 AM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 413
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 58 of 1255 (857239)
07-06-2019 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
07-06-2019 7:50 PM


Re: By Faith from
Actually, that's the problem with the alleged flood: it would not deposit many different layers (especially layers of lava!), but a single jumbled layer.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 7:50 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 32705
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 59 of 1255 (857244)
07-07-2019 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Sarah Bellum
07-06-2019 11:39 PM


Re: By Faith from
So you say, but it didn't, and there are lots of demonstrations of water, both rushing water and still water, depositing separate layers of sediment.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-06-2019 11:39 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

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Faith
Member
Posts: 32705
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 60 of 1255 (857245)
07-07-2019 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Larni
07-06-2019 8:00 PM


Re: By Faith from
I guess all that is Brit stuff: reception, uniform, and he's only four. But it sounds nice to camp out in a "back garden," Americans usually only have "back yards."

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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