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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member
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I was thinking of the ante-bellum South that counted "all other persons" and jacked up their representation, despite the fact that those "persons" weren't allowed to vote. Uh, I don't think you understand what most people object to when discussing the 3/5 compromise. It isn't that people were counted for representation who weren't allowed to vote. It's that African slaves were counted for representation but were property in every other situation. In fact, by the time the Constitution was written, only a couple of states had universal (male) sufferage. Most states had property qualifications for voting and so had lots of people who were counted for representation but weren't allowed to vote. Representation in Congress has never been about counting voters, ever, in any state.
Added by edit: Although, come to think of it, it would be interesting to see the reaction of certain red states, the ones engaged in voter suppression tactics, to the proposal to base representation on numbers of voters! Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 618 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
You must realize that having a sub-population that cannot vote could be a catalyst for social problems? It's almost as if the US had invaded Mexico and taken Sonora as a colony, restricting the voting rights of the inhabitants there who were descended from immigrants from Spain.
Consider as well the issue of a sub-population disenfranchised because of previous criminal records. Or the issue of "territories" and "possessions"
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 618 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
The blue states would lose more than the red states, since their population counts include non-voting aliens (both legal and illegal). For example, CA NY and NJ are the top three in percent foreign born. Texas is only number 7.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Well, okay.
But I was mostly commenting on your reducing the issue of the 3/5 compromise as merely one of allowing non-voters to be counted for apportionment. It really is an odd way of looking at it, and as you can see it obscures the point you're trying to make (neither Theodoric nor I understand what your point actually is), and as you can see we've gone off topic and We've been distracted from your point. It's up to you to decide how to proceed, but I'd suggest moving on from trying to draw an analogy from the antebellum South and just try to make your point as clearly as you can.It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 618 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
It is, admittedly, not a perfect analogy.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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I am interested in your original point, though.
You brought up that immigrants tend to be concentrated in particular states which boosts their representation in Congress as compared to those states' proportion of actual voters. What is your concern with this? What problems do you see with this? Edited by Chiroptera, : Minor typo.It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 618 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
It makes for some weird imbalances.
From 2018: quote: And going the other way: quote:
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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Citizens of a country are allowed to vote in their country's elections even when they live abroad. That seems so obvious to me I can't imagine what the objections are.
What does this have to do with the issue of the constitutional requirement that the US census must count all persons? Edited by Chiroptera, : Typo.It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
When the family visited Mexico, we encountered a number of US citizens who had retired to Mexico. Though I read something in my Social Security paperwork about a requirement to not live outside the US for more than six months or else you'd lose your payments, so I don't know their situation about that. My mother-in-law kept her Mexican citizenship for decades because they planned to move to Mexico when my father-in-law retired, but those plans were scrapped when the peso took a nose dive in the 90's (before which commercials on the radio would tout it as a good investment because it was so stable) and she finally became a naturalized citizen.
At the border towns we also have many people who live in one country and work or go to school in the other, commuting daily across the border with no problem at all. Until now -- I haven't heard any stories, but I feel certain that they exist.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9146 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
Not sure what you are arguing or what your original point was. Are you suggesting letting non-citizens vote? Are you for counting them for the census or not?
It's almost as if the US had invaded Mexico and taken Sonora as a colony, restricting the voting rights of the inhabitants there who were descended from immigrants from Spain.
Nothing in the current situation would be analogous to theat scenario.
Or the issue of "territories" and "possessions"
As a Boricua , I am very familiar with how the US colonies are treated.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 618 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
I quite agree that citizens should be able to vote even if they aren't in their district on voting day.
I didn't say anything about the constitutional requirement that the US census must count all persons.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 618 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Then you can surely see the problems of the current situation in places like California where some inhabitants are subject to the law but do not have the privilege of choosing the lawmakers and may, in fact, owe allegiance to a neighboring nation.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 618 days) Posts: 826 Joined:
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That, of course is the ideal, a border like that between France and Germany or between Spain and Portugal. Perhaps someday the entire North American continent can be united as a single polity.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8536 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Then you can surely see the problems of the current situation in places like California where some inhabitants are subject to the law but do not have the privilege of choosing the lawmakers and may, in fact, owe allegiance to a neighboring nation. No. I don't see where resident aliens, legal or otherwise, present any "problems of the current situation" like California. Why is California a problem? What problems?Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9146 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
I still have no idea what you are trying to say. Can you just tell us what you are saying is a problem?
Your comments are getting even more incoherent. Of course there will be people that live in a place where they can not vote. WTF does that have to do with your census comments? Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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