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Author Topic:   Addiction By Definition
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 297 of 331 (850586)
04-10-2019 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by Phat
04-10-2019 5:11 PM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes:
I would argue that the scripture clearly says that having (or holding) two minds (or two opinions) at the same time makes one unstable.
Of course. But the point is not about the consequences. It's that a rational mind doesn't arrive one and only one opinion.
Phat writes:
But my point was that this whole nonsense of having two different minds which agree...
Who said they agree? The whole point is that they don't agree.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Phat, posted 04-10-2019 5:11 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Phat, posted 04-12-2019 9:40 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 298 of 331 (850587)
04-10-2019 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Phat
04-10-2019 5:19 PM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes:
I would tell the emotionally immature brain cells that while it may be true that they promise one little drink, evidence shows that it often leads to 3, 4, or even 5 drinks. Given that new information, can both opinions still be rational?
You're confusing rational with correct. A rational thought process doesn't necessarily produce The Right Answer. In fact, there often is no "right answer".
Phat writes:
Keep in mind that RR theory states that the Addictive Voice will lie to you in order to have its way.
How can you lie if you're not rational?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Phat, posted 04-10-2019 5:19 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Phat, posted 04-11-2019 4:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 303 of 331 (850687)
04-12-2019 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by Phat
04-11-2019 4:20 PM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes:
Next question...have you ever lied to yourself in order to rationalize an irrational behavior?
I asked the question, How can you lie if you're not rational?
It's the rational mind that's doing the lying. The irrational mind doesn't necessarily enter into it at all.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by Phat, posted 04-11-2019 4:20 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 304 of 331 (850688)
04-12-2019 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 300 by Phat
04-12-2019 9:40 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes:
The devil never makes anyone do anything, but he is quite good at mimicking my own rational voice.
There you go. "The Beast' is a rational voice.
Edited by ringo, : No reason given.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Phat, posted 04-12-2019 9:40 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Phat, posted 04-12-2019 3:46 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 307 of 331 (850721)
04-13-2019 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by Phat
04-12-2019 3:46 PM


Re: AVRT, GOD, and Rationality vs Irrationality
Phat writes:
Is it rational to get drunk often? Is it rational to gamble money that belongs in a retirement account or to give out as spare change? Is it rational to pursue a relationship with a beautiful stranger when you know that you only like her for how she makes you feel?
Decisions are rational.
Phat writes:
Rationalizing something does NOT make it rational or sound.
OF COURSE it does. Rationalizing something doesn't make it right, or good. That's WHY we rationalize it. But the only way to rationalize anything is rationally. It's right there in the word.
Phat writes:
You may never be able to rationalize God....
I can rationalize God... or leprechauns or Martians or ghosts or unicorns or Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster.
Don't confuse rational with real.
Phat writes:
Perhaps you could successfully argue that belief in God is not rational.
I think belief can be rational. But see above: Don't confuse rational with real.
Phat writes:
... you insisted that every well thought-out argument contrary to rationality is itself rational.
I don't think I did. First, a rational argument doesn't have to be "well" thought out; it just has to be thought out. Second, an argument can be rational without giving the right answer.
Edited by ringo, : No reason given.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Phat, posted 04-12-2019 3:46 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by Phat, posted 04-13-2019 4:56 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 309 of 331 (850800)
04-14-2019 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 308 by Phat
04-13-2019 4:56 PM


Re: AVRT, GOD, and Rationality vs Irrationality
Phat writes:
The question then becomes whether or not that spark of divinity is the result of a decision or the "bad burrito" effects of an impulsive moment.
But that is not the question we're discussing here. Whatever may cause that impulse, it is not the only influence on the rational mind. The rational mind often disagrees with itself, which is what I'm trying to tell you.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by Phat, posted 04-13-2019 4:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by Phat, posted 04-15-2019 6:15 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 311 of 331 (850831)
04-15-2019 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by Phat
04-15-2019 6:15 AM


Re: AVRT, GOD, and Rationality vs Irrationality
Phat writes:
”Should the rational mind behave in such a manner?
That's like asking, "Should humans be eight feet tall with x-ray vision?" Why not just stick with what is and not speculate about what "should" be?
Phat writes:
Would not evolution and the human quest for enlightenment seek to minimize such internal discord?
Certainly not. Evolution "chooses" what works. Having a variety of options is an advantage for survival. If Columbus had thought the "only way" to get to India was to swim the Atlantic, he would have been weeded out of the gene pool.
Phat writes:
Would not our better impulses and long-range decisions tend to improve our cognitive development?
Looking at history, it doesn't seem to work that way. With the President that you guys have now - and the people who voted for him - it looks like you (we) might well be headed backwards to another Dark Age.
Phat writes:
Is there a general consensus as to what constitutes rationality?
I think there is.
And let me repeat, since you seem resistant to the idea, that rational does not mean right. Even Trump's supporters are rational, for the most part. It's hard to even say that their reasoning is wrong. It's their values that are messed up.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Phat, posted 04-15-2019 6:15 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 316 of 331 (857418)
07-08-2019 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by Phat
07-08-2019 9:46 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes:
I would argue that not all decisions are rational. Some are impulsive.
That's an assertion. Go ahead and make an argument.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by Phat, posted 07-08-2019 9:46 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by Phat, posted 07-08-2019 3:34 PM ringo has replied
 Message 325 by Phat, posted 07-09-2019 4:06 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 323 of 331 (857547)
07-09-2019 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 320 by Phat
07-08-2019 3:34 PM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes:
it is obvious.
If it's so obvious, tell us what it is. Make an argument.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 320 by Phat, posted 07-08-2019 3:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 328 of 331 (857644)
07-09-2019 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 325 by Phat
07-09-2019 4:06 PM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Phat writes:
Lets start with the definitions.
The issue here is whether or not decisions are rational.
How would you make a decision without using reason? An impulse is not a decision; it's a reaction or a reflex.
Phat writes:
In addition, science has verified the patterns in an addictive brain that differ from those in a normal brain.
Nobody is disputing that. What I'm saying is that an addicts brain is "wired" to make bad decisions, not to not make decisions at all.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by Phat, posted 07-09-2019 4:06 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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