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Author Topic:   The 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Campaign
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2199
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


(1)
Message 106 of 116 (857520)
07-08-2019 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Chiroptera
05-30-2019 9:30 AM


Re: Elizabeth Warren?
Chiroptera writes:

I just donated a small amount of money to her campaign. First time I've ever donated money to a candidate's campaign.

Howard Hutchinson (libertarian for 19th state rep for NM back in 88). Amount $50 (I was his campaign manager).

Bernie Sanders $35 for 2016. $25 for 2020. Elizabeth Warren $50.
Mike Gravel $1 for the ticket to great entertainment in the debates, didn't work.

That's it.

Edited by anglagard, : Bad digit


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Chiroptera, posted 05-30-2019 9:30 AM Chiroptera has not yet responded

    
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2199
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 107 of 116 (857523)
07-08-2019 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by AZPaul3
06-02-2019 11:39 PM


Re: Hold that thought
AZPaul3 writes:

Hey! Stop with the racism. Us jerk off clueless white dudes who actually do remember JFK take exception to our characterization.

As someone who remembers JFK directly, as a white male, and as a baby boomer, In accordance with the rules of identity politcs in declaring the right to criticize my own is my right. Sorry if you feel hurt.

My point is JFK is as relevant to Millennials as Calvin Coolidge is to Boomers, do the math.

Edited by anglagard, : replaced the word triggered with hurt due to the Modulus rule concerning punching down.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2019 11:39 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

    
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2199
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 108 of 116 (857525)
07-08-2019 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by jar
06-09-2019 9:36 AM


Re: Calling out bad racial views.
jar writes:

Read the question to which I was replying. Find racist, warmongering or derogatory statements in the question to which I was replying.

Sheesh!

Which post would that be? Sorry, I don't know if you are criticizing me or someone else.

Fuck most Boomers, they don't get a pass for destroying the environment and thereby murdering billions, nor do they get a pass for whorin' to billionaires and Nazis.

I was born in 1957, I have the right to criticize boomers by virtue of being one.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by jar, posted 06-09-2019 9:36 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 07-09-2019 7:53 AM anglagard has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31062
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 109 of 116 (857541)
07-09-2019 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by anglagard
07-08-2019 10:48 PM


Re: Calling out bad racial views.
You silly kids.

anglagard writes:

Which post would that be? Sorry, I don't know if you are criticizing me or someone else.

The post is linked back to a post from lamarlikestohearhisownvoice.

Buy you books and buy you books and it still doesn't help.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by anglagard, posted 07-08-2019 10:48 PM anglagard has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by anglagard, posted 07-09-2019 11:52 AM jar has not yet responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2199
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 110 of 116 (857552)
07-09-2019 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by jar
07-09-2019 7:53 AM


Re: Calling out bad racial views.
jar writes:

The post is linked back to a post from lamarlikestohearhisownvoice.

That's what I figured, just verifying.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 07-09-2019 7:53 AM jar has not yet responded

    
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 111 of 116 (857557)
07-09-2019 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
05-02-2019 12:32 AM


The polling numbers right now aren't going to reveal anything.

It would be interesting to gauge the public's mood by the number of internet searches on various terms:

Biden: segregationists, bussing (or is it busing? Bussing seems more like kissing, but busing looks like it should be pronounced like fusing, accusing, musing, ...)

Booker: Newark watershed scandal

Buttigieg: Racist police tapes

Harris: Larry Wallace harrassment

Sanders: Private jet, millionaire book deal

Warren: Faked bankruptcy research, that 1/1024 thing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-02-2019 12:32 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 07-09-2019 12:30 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6393
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 112 of 116 (857563)
07-09-2019 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Sarah Bellum
07-09-2019 12:11 PM


busing.
Why would you only think you could determine the public mood by only looking at searches for negative things? Sounds just a bit like poisoning the well and very disingenuous.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-09-2019 12:11 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-09-2019 12:36 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 113 of 116 (857566)
07-09-2019 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Theodoric
07-09-2019 12:30 PM


Prediction is hard, especially about the future.

Look at the current President and the three immediately previous. Was any one of them the favorite early in the election cycle?

So look at other things than polls.

And, yes, people often concentrate on the negatives. I wonder what percent of the electorate was voting for their presidential candidate in 2016 and what percent was voting against the other?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 07-09-2019 12:30 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6393
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 114 of 116 (857886)
07-12-2019 3:17 PM


Gillibrand on White Privilege
Here is a great explanation of white privilege given by Senator Gillibrand. Hopefully she got the questioner to think a little.
The question.
quote:
This is an area that, across all demographics, has been depressed because of the loss of industry and the opioid crisis. What do you have to say to people in this area about so-called white privilege?

Answer
quote:
I understand that families in this community are suffering deeply” and that it “is not acceptable and not OK” for families in the area to experience the financial hardships they have, “but that’s not what that conversation is about.”
What that conversation is about is when a community has been left behind for generations because of the color of their skin. When you’ve been denied job after job after job because you’re Black or because you’re brown. Or when you go to the emergency room to have your baby ― the fact that we have the highest maternal mortality rate, and if you are a black woman you are more four times likely to die in childbirth because that health care provider doesn’t believe you when you say, ‘I don’t feel right.’ Because he doesn't value you or she doesn't value you.
So institutional racism is real. It doesn’t take away your pain or suffering. It’s just a different issue. Your suffering is just as important as a black or brown person’s suffering. But to fix the problems that are happening in the black community, you need far more transformational efforts that are targeted for real racism that exists every day. So if your son is 15 years old and smokes pot, he smokes pot just as much as the Black boy in his neighborhood, or the brown boy in his neighborhood, and that Black or brown boy is four times more likely to be arrested. And when he's arrested the criminal justice system might require him to pay bail. 500 bucks. That kid does not have 500 bucks....If it's an adult with a child at home and he's a single parent, no one is with his child? Doesn't matter what he says, "I have a child at home. I have to go home. He's only 12. What am I gonna do?" It doesn't matter. IMAGINE as a parent how you would feel so helpless.
THAT'S institutional racism. Your son will likely not have to deal with that because he is white. So, when someone says "white privilege," that's all they're talking about. It's that his whiteness will mean that a police officer might give him a second chance. It might mean that he doesn't get incarcerated because he just smoked a joint with his girlfriend. I might mean that he won't have to post bail. It might mean that he might be able to show up to work the next day and not lose his job, and not be in this cycle of poverty that never ends. That's all it is.

https://crooksandliars.com/...gillibrand-schools-white-woman

Edited by Theodoric, : Spell name correct please


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by jar, posted 07-12-2019 4:17 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31062
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 115 of 116 (857887)
07-12-2019 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Theodoric
07-12-2019 3:17 PM


jar on White Privilege
Long long ago and in a land far far away ...

is how many tales start.

But this is not all that long ago and not all that far away.

One day I arrived to work to find one of my draftsmen was late. He was a young black college student working a summer job as a draftsman doing layout for a cable television system. A call to his house got an answer.

He had gotten a bonus the week before for working o0vertime to get an addition to the system plotted early. With the money he had bought a car from a friend; not the greatest of cars but better than riding the bus.

Getting home late he was stopped by the police and since he had nothing to show he owned the car, he car was impounded and he was in jail.

My wife at the time was the legal secretary to one of the most prominent lawyers in town and I called him to see what could be done for the young man. About twenty minutes later I got a personal call from the arresting officer saying my employee would be brought straight to work and they would get the car to him by end of day. The officer then apologized to ME for "locking up my BOY".

They never apologized to him, never offered to compensate him for a night in jail, never explained why he was stopped or why they impounded his car instead of just giving him a ticket.

They did apologize to me!


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1458
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 116 of 116 (857933)
07-13-2019 3:48 PM


Wall Street Journal front page story on The South's economic problem (and cause).
This article gets to an important lesson in economic growth, and the fact that something that (almost?) works for a while DOES NOT WORK FOREVER due to the fallout from lack of investment in people.

(the issue of segregation and racism playing a major role in the economic situation - overall smaller economic size - isn't really covered, nevertheless there is surely something of an implicit obviousness in the story)

I still have the paper but it seems the entire article is readable online.

https://www.wsj.com/...n-the-money-stops-flowing-11560101610

There is a graph showing regional (per 4 regions) per capita income.

There is also a map of the 50 states showing a color-coded level of income relative to the national average.

There are a ton of photographs including one of the 108 year old Jessie Winston, one of the first black workers hired at Natchez’s tire plant (after blacks were FINALLY allowed to work there) .

quote:

By Sharon Nunn

Photographs by Seth Herald for The Wall Street Journal

Updated June 9, 2019 5:58 pm ET

NATCHEZ, Miss.—The American South spent much of the past century trying to overcome its position as the country’s poorest and least-developed region, with considerable success: By the 2009 recession it had nearly caught up economically with its northern and western neighbors.

That trend has now reversed. Since 2009, the South’s convergence has turned to divergence, as the region recorded the country’s slowest growth in output and wages, the lowest labor-force participation rate and the highest unemployment rate.

Behind the reversal: The policies that drove the region’s catch-up—relatively low taxes and low wages that attracted factories and blue-collar jobs—have proven inadequate in an expanding economy where the forces of globalization favor cities with concentrations of capital and educated workers.

“Those policies worked before, then they became fundamental constraints on the [South’s] long-term growth,” said Richard Florida, an urbanization expert at the University of Toronto.

Higher taxes and education spending aren’t a cure-all, as many northern states now suffering population loss have found. Nor is the South alone in its economic troubles: Automation and globalization have wiped out millions of good-paying factory jobs around the country, especially in the Rust Belt.

But these trends have fallen especially hard on the South, which is more rural than the rest of the country and has fewer big cities. In part because of its legacy of racial segregation the region has, relative to others, underinvested in human capital. Thus the South, the only region to have enjoyed such a dramatic rise in the postwar period, is the only one to experience such a retreat in the past decade.

In the 1940s, per capita income in the states historians and economists generally refer to as the South—Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolinas, Virginia, West Virginia, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tennessee and Kentucky—equaled 66.3% of the national average, according to historical data reconstructed by University of Kent economist Alex Klein and The Wall Street Journal. By 2009, that had climbed to 88.9%. That was the high-water mark. By 2017 it fell back to 85.9%.

Against the Northeast, the country’s wealthiest region, the South’s decline began sooner and has been steeper. The South’s per capita income peaked at 79.1% of the Northeast’s level, and has since fallen to 71.6%.

(Those numbers would look slightly better under the U.S. Census Bureau’s broader definition of the South, which adds in Texas, Florida, Maryland and Delaware, though the general trend remains the same.)

Rural Adams County in the southwest corner of Mississippi exemplifies the typical story of the South’s rise and fall. It once attracted thousands of higher-paid factory jobs, particularly in the 1930s, when a big tire and rubber plant arrived. But the major factories began closing in the 2000s; the tire plant shut down in 2001. “Friends and family that have been here for 20 years…were packing up and leaving,” says Chandler Russ, who grew up in Adams.

The income gains the county notched against the rest of the country from the 1950s to the 2000s have completely reversed.

The county population peaked in 1982 at 39,172, and has declined about 20% since. Factory jobs, 18.5% of the county’s total in 1992, were just 5% in 2017. Per capita income is now 56.8% of the national average.

Today Mr. Russ runs its economic development office, working to attract better paying jobs. It’s an uphill battle. A slim supply of college graduates makes it difficult to attract high-paying employers, which in turn gives the county’s smartest students little reason to stay. “Our brightest and best that go to college and get a good education don’t come back,” said Glenn Green, a prominent local Realtor. He has sold fewer pricier homes in recent years as the engineers, plant managers, and other higher-paid workers who used to staff the big plants have left.

Within the South, individual cities and states have had widely diverging experiences. So-called Sunbelt cities like Charlotte and Atlanta have attracted both wealthier white-collar workers and retirees from richer regions, and less-educated workers from poorer, rural areas. Thanks to these cities, the entire region rebranded itself as the New South.

And neighboring states such as Texas, with its own unique economy, often got lumped in. But unlike the rest of the South, Texas is relatively urban, with five major metro centers. It has a thriving tech sector and ample reserves of oil and gas which have boomed in recent years thanks to the fracking revolution.

“The ‘New South’ is a narrative that is more applicable to the urban centers,” says James Ziliak, an economist at the University of Kentucky specializing in poverty. Much of the region consists of smaller towns and rural communities whose fortunes rose, then often fell with that of a single local industry.

As the divide between rural and urban incomes widens nationwide, the South has been particularly affected, since a third of its population lives in rural areas, compared with under 20% for the overall U.S.

The South’s economy was historically poorer because it was heavily dependent on agriculture, one legacy of the dominance of cotton and slavery. In 1880, about 90% of southern workers were employed in farming, compared with about 66% nationally, according to Sukkoo Kim of Washington University.

To diversify and lure manufacturing, southern states, starting with Arkansas in 1947, began passing right-to-work laws that weakened unions and kept taxes lower than in the wealthier North. And they spent less, especially on education: an average of $1,869 per student in 2009 dollars, in 1960, compared with $2,741 nationwide, according to the Education Department. In part, this reflected the long shadow of slavery. In the Jim Crow era white taxpayers and politicians resisted spending that benefited blacks, according to historians.

Mississippi was an early adopter of this industrial push. In the 1930s, it passed the nation’s first state-sponsored economic development plan to encourage northern industries to move south, using low taxes, low wages and other incentives. Manufacturers flooded in. By 2009, per capita income had climbed to 76.3% of the national average, from just 30.3% in 1932.

The plan was particularly successful in Adams County, where, by 1960, farm labor declined to one of the lowest percentages in the state. Armstrong Tire and Rubber, later known as Titan Tire, was one of the first manufacturers to respond to Mississippi’s plan, opening a plant in Natchez in 1939. It became a linchpin in the community, the behemoth building’s outline visible above the tops of homes and businesses in its neighborhood. It eventually employed more than 1,000 white workers, and by the 1960s began hiring blacks, including Jessie Winston, now 108 years old, who checked the quality of tires coming off conveyor belts, and his daughter Helen.

The streets surrounding the tire plant were busy with passing cars and families and lined with fully occupied, brightly painted homes, the Winstons recall.

But in the 1980s, globalization and automation began eliminating the sorts of lower-skilled manufacturing jobs that the South had been so successful at attracting. The tire plant closed permanently in 2001 largely due to regulatory lawsuits and union negotiations that turned sour. This threw Mr. Winston and his daughter out of work. Other factory closures happened around the same time, devastating the county’s tax base.

“All of a sudden that [industry] money stops flowing through the economy,” Mr. Russ said. “It was alarming.”

The neighborhood near Titan’s gray and rusting plant is quieter now, there is less traffic, and empty homes with broken windows contrast with the well-kept lawns of the remaining residents and churches. The restaurants the Winstons used to frequent have closed. Mr. Winston continued a hair-cutting side gig and later worked at a bakery, making doughnuts and pastries. His daughter became a housekeeper for a local community college.

The federal government has tried ways to redress regional disparities. Huntsville, Ala., was a major recipient of federal missile and space research jobs and funding. President Trump’s tariffs are meant to bring factory jobs back to the U.S., including the South. After the Trump administration threatened 25% tariffs on auto imports, Toyota announced it was building a $1.6 billion assembly plant with Mazda Motor Corp. in Huntsville. But such moves have yet to eliminate the South’s income gap.

Many economists say the most effective way for the South to regain its momentum would be to invest more in education, which would over time create a more skilled workforce to attract employers. But Mississippi State University economist Alan Barefield notes that is difficult to reconcile with southern states’ historic desire to keep spending and taxes low.

As Adams County’s industrial jobs fled over the past decade, they have been replaced by jobs in the lower-paid leisure, hospitality and food sectors, which are now about a fifth of the workforce. Natchez leaders have also tried to draw tourism dollars, emphasizing its deeply Southern roots and proximity to the Natchez Trace Parkway, a series of trails formerly used by Native Americans. Foreign tourists now meander down the city’s waterfront path with an unobstructed view of the Louisiana coastline, and make their way through antebellum-style plantation homes with tall, imposing white columns.

But the dearth of college-educated workers has hampered its ability to attract high-paying white-collar information and professional and business services jobs, which made up less than 8% of the workforce.

So city leaders are doing their best with what they have. They encouraged its local community college, Copiah-Lincoln, to adapt its offerings to what potential employers may need. This is showing signs of working. Great River Industries, which makes fabricated metal products like industrial-sized vessels that hold chemicals, moved to Natchez in 2013 after the city pushed the community college to redesign its welding curriculum. The firm currently employs almost 300 and plans to hire more. A couple of other smaller manufacturers have also set up shop.

But Mr. Russ acknowledged that the city can’t depend on just a few manufacturers in a handful of product areas or it could go the way of the past again.

“There’s no visions of grandeur,” Mr. Russ said, and little hope of going back to the days of Titan Tire. “But what if we get 10 100-[person] plants that grow to 250 jobs over time?” he added. “You don’t take the beating when you lose one.”

— Anthony DeBarros in Washington contributed to this article.

Write to Sharon Nunn at sharon.nunn@wsj.com

Copyright ©2019 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8
Appeared in the June 10, 2019, print edition as 'The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind.'


The article encourages people to post comments on your opinion about the South's problems.

My opinion:

Democrats lost a lot of credibility when they pushed for the online sales tax imposition, which is a total assault on poor people, and a total assault on the states that don't saddle sales taxes on their people. Plus it is a total fraud. A person in Tennessee who pays a (online) merchant for a product SHOULD BE SEEN AS MAKING THE TRANSACTION WHERE THE MERCHANT IS LOCATED. The big fraud is that a merchant in New Hampshire or Oregon is somehow seen as having his transaction point in the home state of the buyer.

The "race-to-the-bottom" would have actually worked in poor people's favor - for once - had the transaction location been seen in its totally natural state, that is to say the item was purchased in the sellers physical location.

The flood of businesses to Montana, Oregon, Delaware, Alaska, and New Hampshire would have required sales taxes to be ended everywhere for states to be economically competitive. The wealthy (facing potentially higher state income taxes) did not like that idea. And neither did the liberal members of the Supreme Court.

The sad thing is that there already was an early 1990's precedent (involving a North Dakota case) that seemed to protect poor people, but that was thrown out without a second thought. A South Dakota case brought the issue back. South Dakota lost, in a lower court, in its attempt to slam poor people, due to the earlier precedent. But the powerful anti-poor forces won at the Supreme Court.

The economic deck is stacked when totally NOT-natural forces are somehow enshrined into the economic physical reality we are all forced to live with. Talk about "fine-tuning" and (intelligent?) "design" of physics!

This recent decision was the ultimate case of the wealthy powers enjoying a perpetual triumph over the poor.

(And with the liberal side being as much of the never-ending problem as anybody)

We need a new universe to start all over and try again.


    
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