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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1233 of 3207 (857643)
07-09-2019 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1229 by GDR
07-09-2019 4:34 PM


Re: Theology, Philosophy, and Facts vs Fiction
GDR writes:
are because they are cute and cuddly but because, after quite a lot of study, it is what I subjectively believe to be true.
What I said was, "... unless you're arguing that most will never believe, you're on a completely different page." Are you arguing that most will never believe?

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1229 by GDR, posted 07-09-2019 4:34 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1234 by GDR, posted 07-10-2019 1:07 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1253 of 3207 (857879)
07-12-2019 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1248 by Phat
07-12-2019 2:15 AM


Re: chances
Thugpreacher writes:
In essence we claim no evidence of and no need of a God yet attempt to take that spot of intelligence and observation for ourselves.
It was God who said it:
quote:
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Unless, of course, it was just human authors putting those words into God's mouth....
But then, "I am the way, the truth and the life," would also be words that humans put into a character's mouth.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1248 by Phat, posted 07-12-2019 2:15 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1254 by Phat, posted 07-12-2019 1:01 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1255 of 3207 (857883)
07-12-2019 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1254 by Phat
07-12-2019 1:01 PM


Re: The Rationality Of Irrationality
Phat writes:
Original sin is really just the origin of death.
More apologist garbage.
Phat writes:
You will argue that death is a "natural" part of life, but it is not the default option.
It is the default. It is not an option.
Phat writes:
Why believe in a power greater than ourselves? Especially if we have to be accountable to it. Better to doub that it exists and that even if it did it wouldn't be in our best interests.
Stop it. I have told you repeatedly that that is not my motivation. I feel more accountable than you do.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1254 by Phat, posted 07-12-2019 1:01 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1256 by Phat, posted 07-12-2019 1:14 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1257 of 3207 (857885)
07-12-2019 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1256 by Phat
07-12-2019 1:14 PM


Re: The Rationality Of Irrationality
Phat writes:
In other words, you believe that evidence supports no God and thus it is human responsibility to do for the least of these.
the evidence shows that things need to be done and there is no god doing them. So who else is going to do them?
Phat writes:
Being moderately conservative, I cringe at having to change my cushy lifestyle too much simply to make things even globally and hope for better solutions that allow everyone to be helped while maintaining the comforts that I have now.
What gets me is how you can profess to believe in a Jesus who told you to do it.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1256 by Phat, posted 07-12-2019 1:14 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1258 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 9:24 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 1259 of 3207 (857924)
07-13-2019 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1258 by Phat
07-13-2019 9:24 AM


Re: The Rationality Of Irrationality
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
the evidence shows that things need to be done and there is no god doing them.
I would hardly call that conclusive.
It is conclusive. Poor people exist.
Phat writes:
There are many many believers who could vouch for God having done a lot of things in their lives.
It is not about something vague that is being done "in the lives" of believers. It's about what is not being done in other people's lives.
Phat writes:
The default standard need not be scientific objectifiable proof in regards to such matters.
You don't want that to be the standard because your god doesn't meet the standard.
Phat writes:
How would one go about proving God to begin with?
Easy. Pray for the sick and they're healed - every time.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
What gets me is how you can profess to believe in a Jesus who told you to do it.
I don't simply believe in an alien overlord who expects me to snap to attention and do every little thing He asks.
Then why do you believe? The only source you have for the existence of your alien overlord is the stories that tell you to snap to attention and do every little thing He asks.
Phat writes:
Granted you take the message more serious than I do in that you are an ardent proponent of cultural Marxism, or Socialism, or Communism, or whatever you (or we) choose to name it.
I call it being a decent human being.
Phat writes:
What I can't believe is the way you do everything that Jesus commands in Matthew 25 and defend Him (and use His words to attempt to indict me) yet you see Him as a myth.
Why wouldn't a mythical character understand about being a decent human being? The people who created the myth weren't that much different from me.
Phat writes:
You have no place to question the motives of believers when you yourself knowingly and willingly refuse to believe.
That's exactly why I question the motives of believers. How is your belief anything but an excuse for not being a decent human being?
Phat writes:
Human attempts at a fair and just system devoid of God WILL fail eventually.
Nonsense.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1258 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 9:24 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2313 by Phat, posted 12-24-2019 11:42 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1274 of 3207 (858099)
07-16-2019 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1271 by Stile
07-16-2019 1:00 PM


Re: chances
Stile writes:
If you think this definition "has little value" - that's up to you, or you can explain why you think such a thing.
I didn't say that the definition has little value. I said that conclusions you have drawn from it have little value.
"As-correct-as-possible" is subjective - i.e. you can choose any convenient stopping point. Essentially, you're doing the same thing as Faith does: You're deciding arbitrarily that you've looked enough. That's "enough" to form an opinion but it isn't necessarily enough to "know".

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1271 by Stile, posted 07-16-2019 1:00 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1275 by Stile, posted 07-16-2019 1:38 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1276 of 3207 (858102)
07-16-2019 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1275 by Stile
07-16-2019 1:38 PM


Re: chances
Stile writes:
We have, in fact, searched for God's existence a great deal more and a great deal longer than the vast majority of other non-evidenced concepts we all seem just fine with saying we know they do not exist.
We have searched for God "enough" to be pretty sure that He doesn't exist. When we're looking for a really big unevidenced concept, it takes a lot more looking than a McDonalds menu.
Stile writes:
If you think there's no value in being able to consistently and reasonably ignore irrational ideas... that's up to you.
You're moving the goalposts. I can ignore God quite nicely without pretending to "know" that He doesn't exist.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1275 by Stile, posted 07-16-2019 1:38 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1277 by Stile, posted 07-16-2019 2:11 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1289 of 3207 (858140)
07-17-2019 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1277 by Stile
07-16-2019 2:11 PM


Re: chances
Stile writes:
I ignore all irrational concepts for the same reason - there is no evidence to accept them in the first place.
But sharkfin soup at McDonalds is not an irrational concept. It happens to not be on the menu and you won't find it on the menu if you search for thousands of years - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all. It just means you're looking in the wrong place.
Similarly, God is not an inherently irrational concept.
So they don't belong in the same discussion with banana keys or crab chairs. You definitely have two sets of goalposts there.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1277 by Stile, posted 07-16-2019 2:11 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1302 by Stile, posted 07-18-2019 8:28 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1290 of 3207 (858141)
07-17-2019 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1278 by Phat
07-16-2019 3:45 PM


Re: You can't know God through any physical methods
Phat writes:
Belief will ultimately be embraced by less than 50%.
I asked you before and you didn't answer: How do you reconcile that idea with the idea that God with give everybody another chance?

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1278 by Phat, posted 07-16-2019 3:45 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1291 of 3207 (858142)
07-17-2019 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1285 by Dredge
07-17-2019 2:14 AM


Re: chances
Dredge writes:
You seem to have forgotten the alleged first life-form, which, according to atheist folklore, formed naturally from inanimate matter.
Also according to Judeo-Christian folklore:
quote:
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1285 by Dredge, posted 07-17-2019 2:14 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1293 by Phat, posted 07-17-2019 5:36 PM ringo has replied
 Message 1377 by Dredge, posted 07-20-2019 7:19 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1294 of 3207 (858152)
07-17-2019 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1293 by Phat
07-17-2019 5:36 PM


Re: chances
Phat writes:
The breath of life is more (to me) than simply a biological beginning. It is a purposeful beginning originating from the mind of the Creator.
That's irrelevant. The point here is that we came from non-living matter.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1293 by Phat, posted 07-17-2019 5:36 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1295 by Phat, posted 07-17-2019 6:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1296 of 3207 (858161)
07-17-2019 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1295 by Phat
07-17-2019 6:48 PM


Re: chances
Phat writes:
Explain again the "scientific" explanation of how life came from non-life. Was it Dr.Frankenstein's lightning bolt?
That's a bit over-dramatic. There's no real difference between non-living chemicals and living chemicals, so the transition could be fairly gentle. But of course, if lightning was involved, that's perfectly natural too.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1295 by Phat, posted 07-17-2019 6:48 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1297 by Phat, posted 07-17-2019 7:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1298 of 3207 (858164)
07-17-2019 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1297 by Phat
07-17-2019 7:04 PM


Re: chances
Phat writes:
You claim that everything that can be known about God and Jesus is confined to the book. I will claim that everything that can be known or guessed concerning the galaxy and the universe beyond...including the evidence of god or lack of...is confined to human wisdom coming solely from this dust speck called Earth.
What's your point?
Phat writes:
Why should the source be human derived?
Because it's the only source we have. If you have another source, roll it out - but make an argument; don't just assert.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1297 by Phat, posted 07-17-2019 7:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1301 by Phat, posted 07-18-2019 8:15 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1309 of 3207 (858215)
07-18-2019 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1301 by Phat
07-18-2019 8:15 AM


Re: Hubris At Refusing To Consider God
Phat writes:
Dont you see it? The human hubris at asserting a low probability of God?
The hubris is in thinking there's a creator of all things seen and unseen who wants to be buddy-buddy with you.
Phat writes:
Evidence is lacking, according to some secular arguments.
Evidence is lacking period. If you have any evidence, you have to be able to show us what it is.
Phat writes:
Apologists disagree, and have many arguments countering this, however.
Again... again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again... show us the f**king arguments, just one or two teeny, tiny little arguments. Give us a chance to show you where they go wrong. Don't just assume that they are right and we are wrong.
Phat writes:
This specific evidence against God first seeks to discredit the Bible itself.
Nonsense. You are the one who throws out the Bible when it doesn't fit your apologists' pronouncements. I am the one who is trying to get you to respect the Bible.
Phat writes:
The jury is still out...
No, the jury is not out. You were out to lunch when they came in and gave their verdict.
Phat writes:
... as there are also many arguments supporting the Bible.
Again... I am the one who is supporting what the Bible says. If your apologists have any arguments worth listening to, present them.
Phat writes:
I would argue that humans by nature are defiant towards the idea of an authority that is "alien".
Stop saying "argue" when you mean "assert". And stop asserting that nonsense. I have told you many times that it's a lie.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1301 by Phat, posted 07-18-2019 8:15 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1310 of 3207 (858217)
07-18-2019 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1302 by Stile
07-18-2019 8:28 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
God is an inherently irrational concept.
Unless you can provide any amount of evidence that suggests God actually exists?
Not existing doesn't make it an irrational concept.
Stile writes:
Sharkfin soup on McDonald's menu is meant to show how we identify something that doesn't exist - look for where it's supposed to be and see that it's not there.
The sharkfin soup is what defeats your whole argument. There is no place where it is "supposed to be". Sharkfin soup does exist. You're just looking in the wrong place. The same could apply to God.
Stile writes:
God is irrational - there is no evidence He exists.
Still wrong.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1302 by Stile, posted 07-18-2019 8:28 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1311 by Stile, posted 07-18-2019 12:24 PM ringo has replied

  
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