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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Faith
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Posts: 32660
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 346 of 1255 (858009)
07-14-2019 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by AZPaul3
07-14-2019 6:16 PM


Re: honest exploration of physical reality.
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful opinion.
This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 347 of 1255 (858010)
07-14-2019 8:50 PM


Still waiting for the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure.
Faith, how did either of the Biblical Floods

  1. create millions of alternating layers of finer material covered by courser material,

  2. transport whole islands of coral intact and deposit them right side up,

  3. create and preserve wind blown sand dunes,

  4. leave tracks of critters and intact nests,

  5. sort biological samples by critter and plant and pollen by type.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

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AZPaul3
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Posts: 4394
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 348 of 1255 (858011)
07-14-2019 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by Faith
07-14-2019 7:48 PM


Re: honest exploration of physical reality.
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful opinion.

I am most gratified for the opportunity to contribute my thoughts (actually thought through and verifiable) to this discussion. You are most welcome.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4394
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 349 of 1255 (858012)
07-14-2019 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by jar
07-14-2019 8:50 PM


Re: Still waiting for the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure.
how did either of the Biblical Floods ...

Is majik an acceptable answer?

I hear that's big in the CRP crowd.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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PaulK
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Posts: 15318
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 350 of 1255 (858015)
07-15-2019 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 344 by Faith
07-14-2019 7:41 PM


Re: Aabsurdity
quote:

Completely different sediments, straight and flat and all neatly stacked up for miles. For starters.

And why exactly do you consider that odd ? Minus the exaggeration, it seems to be what we’d expect given hundreds of millions of years.

It would certainly be odd if you assumed that the Flood did it, but we don’t

Start with the sequences associated with transgression and regression. Don’t we see exactly what we should expect if the sea level slowly rose and fell ? If not, why not ?

quote:

Totally lost me. All I want is another term for "******" and a comment on whether anybody ******4 the geological column stack of sediments is an unlikely fit with the time periods interpretation.

If you think so, you are going to have to explain why.

quote:

I was using the term "uniform" to refer to the regularity of the form of the strata as straight flat slabs of separate sedimentary content. Nothing to do with rock as such or its composition or texture etc.

Except that they often aren’t straight or flat.

quote:

Not getting your point. Steno's law refers to original horizontality and that's apparent everywhere there are strata in whatever condition they happen to be.

Well, it refers to how sediment is deposited. Now if you want to explain why it’s odd that the laws of physics applied in the distant past go right ahead. The rest of us don’t think it’s odd at all.

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.


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dwise1
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Posts: 3639
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 351 of 1255 (858020)
07-15-2019 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 345 by Faith
07-14-2019 7:43 PM


Re: honest exploration of physical reality.
My agenda comes from the Bible as it is taught by most Protestant evangelicals.

It doesn't matter whether you dreamed everything up yourself or you got it from others. The simple fact still remains that it is your own fallible human interpretation (virtually guaranteed to be wrong by its very nature) that you are following, not the Bible itself.

And again, what do you think would happen if your own fallible human interpretation (virtually guaranteed to be wrong by its very nature) were to prove to be wrong?

I have zip knowledge about or interest in the legal situation.

Nor would we expect that of you, but nonetheless you should know where your nonsense came from and why you feel compelled to apply a particular approach.

YEC screams out for God to have magicked everything into place, because the evidence is all against it. Yet you feel constrained to explain everything "scientifically" (despite you having no idea what that means, let alone having any knowledge of science). Why would that be? You can never succeed, since the evidence is all against you.

Yet if you were to employ magick, your god's stock in trade, you could sweep all that difficult evidence aside with ease. Why don't you do that? Why do you feel constrained to "put the Bible aside"?

The reason is the manner in which "creation science" works, but was set by its origin as a deliberate legalistic deception. Although intended to deliberately deceive the courts and the general public, fundamentalists decided that it was also good for deceiving themselves. That's where you come in. You have been deceived by your own people. Shouldn't you at least try to understand how?


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Faith
Member
Posts: 32660
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 352 of 1255 (858024)
07-15-2019 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by Percy
07-12-2019 12:17 PM


Dino nests, footprints, raindrops etc.
Working backward through your posts. Who knows how far I'll get though.

Yeah but I've already dealt with all that in the past...

This is untrue.

No it's not untrue. The dino nests, the footprints, the raindrops, burrows, etc. I'm not sure if that's all on the list: I hypothesized that they occurred during a phase of the rising water when waves and tides came in and went out, leaving sllck wet sediments as they went out. Some creatures were still alive and their footprints and burrows got impressed in the wet sedment which were then preserved when the next wave deposited a new load of sediment on top of them. Same with the raindrops, which I particularly enjoy thlnking about because rain was the initiator of the Flood. The sediment must have had some time to dry a bit while the water was out, so the impressions weren't blurred or erased. The dino nests would have floated, been deposited on the wet sediment, then covered by the next wave.

Completely plausible.

Yes I did discuss all this at some length as I recall.

Cheers

ABE: It's actually not as easy to explain all this on the time periods explanation of millions of years' accumulation of sediments.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 32660
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 353 of 1255 (858025)
07-15-2019 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 297 by Percy
07-12-2019 12:05 PM


Re: What if all the physical evidence was destroyed?
Why are you including Biblical references when you previously insisted that your views were based on observations independent of the Bible.

I said GEOLOGICAL AND BIOLOGICAL facts I ponder without reference to the Bible.

Historical facts HAVE to be determined by the Bible, since secular science is always getting it wrong.


This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 32660
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 354 of 1255 (858026)
07-15-2019 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by Pollux
07-11-2019 9:17 PM


Re: Lithification
Daniel Wonderly on page 41 of "Neglect of Geological Data by Creationists" gives a figure of 80,000 to 90,000 years for cementation of 10 metres of ********* under optimal conditions.

Do those "optimal conditions" include burial under, say, two or three miles of other sediments?


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JonF
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Posts: 5326
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 355 of 1255 (858027)
07-15-2019 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 354 by Faith
07-15-2019 7:49 AM


Re: Lithification
Yes.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by Faith, posted 07-15-2019 7:49 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by Faith, posted 07-15-2019 7:59 AM JonF has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32660
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 356 of 1255 (858028)
07-15-2019 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 355 by JonF
07-15-2019 7:55 AM


Re: Lithification
Thank you. And now may I ask how they could possibly know it took so many thousands of years since it's impossible to measure it?

Oh but I realize I should have asked WHEN those miles of sediment were deposited on top? All at once as in the Flood or over hundreds of millions of years?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 32660
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 357 of 1255 (858029)
07-15-2019 8:33 AM


I'm criticized for proposing ad hoc explanations. But of course I do, there is nothing else I can do in this situation. But it's also true that all the explanations given in the historical sciences are little more than ad hoc as well. Just made up stuff that got accepted and elaborated which gives it all a status that has no serious scientific basis to it.

Cheers.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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JonF
Member
Posts: 5326
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 358 of 1255 (858030)
07-15-2019 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 356 by Faith
07-15-2019 7:59 AM


Re: Lithification
We know the reactions and how fast they proceed under various circumstances. The laws of physics haven't changed so it is a simple calculation.

When doesn't matter much. Just that there is pressure.

Temperature is more important than pressure. Temperature high enough to speed up the process significantly produces a different result, so we can tell


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JonF
Member
Posts: 5326
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 359 of 1255 (858031)
07-15-2019 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 357 by Faith
07-15-2019 8:33 AM


Nobody accepts ad hoc fantasies in science. You know nothing of the evidence and analysis that led to the mainstream theories.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by Faith, posted 07-15-2019 8:33 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by Faith, posted 07-15-2019 9:30 AM JonF has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 360 of 1255 (858032)
07-15-2019 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 356 by Faith
07-15-2019 7:59 AM


Re: Lithification
Faith writes:

And now may I ask how they could possibly know it took so many thousands of years since it's impossible to measure it?

Why is it impossible to measure?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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