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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
What I said was, "... unless you're arguing that most will never believe, you're on a completely different page." Are you arguing that most will never believe? are because they are cute and cuddly but because, after quite a lot of study, it is what I subjectively believe to be true.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Thugpreacher writes:
It was God who said it:
In essence we claim no evidence of and no need of a God yet attempt to take that spot of intelligence and observation for ourselves.quote:Unless, of course, it was just human authors putting those words into God's mouth.... But then, "I am the way, the truth and the life," would also be words that humans put into a character's mouth.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
More apologist garbage.
Original sin is really just the origin of death. Phat writes:
It is the default. It is not an option.
You will argue that death is a "natural" part of life, but it is not the default option. Phat writes:
Stop it. I have told you repeatedly that that is not my motivation. I feel more accountable than you do. Why believe in a power greater than ourselves? Especially if we have to be accountable to it. Better to doub that it exists and that even if it did it wouldn't be in our best interests.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
the evidence shows that things need to be done and there is no god doing them. So who else is going to do them?
In other words, you believe that evidence supports no God and thus it is human responsibility to do for the least of these. Phat writes:
What gets me is how you can profess to believe in a Jesus who told you to do it. Being moderately conservative, I cringe at having to change my cushy lifestyle too much simply to make things even globally and hope for better solutions that allow everyone to be helped while maintaining the comforts that I have now.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
It is conclusive. Poor people exist.
ringo writes: I would hardly call that conclusive. the evidence shows that things need to be done and there is no god doing them. Phat writes:
It is not about something vague that is being done "in the lives" of believers. It's about what is not being done in other people's lives.
There are many many believers who could vouch for God having done a lot of things in their lives. Phat writes:
You don't want that to be the standard because your god doesn't meet the standard.
The default standard need not be scientific objectifiable proof in regards to such matters. Phat writes:
Easy. Pray for the sick and they're healed - every time.
How would one go about proving God to begin with? Phat writes:
Then why do you believe? The only source you have for the existence of your alien overlord is the stories that tell you to snap to attention and do every little thing He asks.
ringo writes:
I don't simply believe in an alien overlord who expects me to snap to attention and do every little thing He asks. What gets me is how you can profess to believe in a Jesus who told you to do it. Phat writes:
I call it being a decent human being.
Granted you take the message more serious than I do in that you are an ardent proponent of cultural Marxism, or Socialism, or Communism, or whatever you (or we) choose to name it. Phat writes:
Why wouldn't a mythical character understand about being a decent human being? The people who created the myth weren't that much different from me.
What I can't believe is the way you do everything that Jesus commands in Matthew 25 and defend Him (and use His words to attempt to indict me) yet you see Him as a myth. Phat writes:
That's exactly why I question the motives of believers. How is your belief anything but an excuse for not being a decent human being?
You have no place to question the motives of believers when you yourself knowingly and willingly refuse to believe. Phat writes:
Nonsense. Human attempts at a fair and just system devoid of God WILL fail eventually.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
I didn't say that the definition has little value. I said that conclusions you have drawn from it have little value. If you think this definition "has little value" - that's up to you, or you can explain why you think such a thing. "As-correct-as-possible" is subjective - i.e. you can choose any convenient stopping point. Essentially, you're doing the same thing as Faith does: You're deciding arbitrarily that you've looked enough. That's "enough" to form an opinion but it isn't necessarily enough to "know".All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
We have searched for God "enough" to be pretty sure that He doesn't exist. When we're looking for a really big unevidenced concept, it takes a lot more looking than a McDonalds menu.
We have, in fact, searched for God's existence a great deal more and a great deal longer than the vast majority of other non-evidenced concepts we all seem just fine with saying we know they do not exist. Stile writes:
You're moving the goalposts. I can ignore God quite nicely without pretending to "know" that He doesn't exist. If you think there's no value in being able to consistently and reasonably ignore irrational ideas... that's up to you.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
But sharkfin soup at McDonalds is not an irrational concept. It happens to not be on the menu and you won't find it on the menu if you search for thousands of years - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all. It just means you're looking in the wrong place. I ignore all irrational concepts for the same reason - there is no evidence to accept them in the first place. Similarly, God is not an inherently irrational concept. So they don't belong in the same discussion with banana keys or crab chairs. You definitely have two sets of goalposts there.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I asked you before and you didn't answer: How do you reconcile that idea with the idea that God with give everybody another chance? Belief will ultimately be embraced by less than 50%.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
Also according to Judeo-Christian folklore:
You seem to have forgotten the alleged first life-form, which, according to atheist folklore, formed naturally from inanimate matter.quote: All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's irrelevant. The point here is that we came from non-living matter. The breath of life is more (to me) than simply a biological beginning. It is a purposeful beginning originating from the mind of the Creator.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's a bit over-dramatic. There's no real difference between non-living chemicals and living chemicals, so the transition could be fairly gentle. But of course, if lightning was involved, that's perfectly natural too. Explain again the "scientific" explanation of how life came from non-life. Was it Dr.Frankenstein's lightning bolt?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What's your point?
You claim that everything that can be known about God and Jesus is confined to the book. I will claim that everything that can be known or guessed concerning the galaxy and the universe beyond...including the evidence of god or lack of...is confined to human wisdom coming solely from this dust speck called Earth. Phat writes:
Because it's the only source we have. If you have another source, roll it out - but make an argument; don't just assert. Why should the source be human derived?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The hubris is in thinking there's a creator of all things seen and unseen who wants to be buddy-buddy with you.
Dont you see it? The human hubris at asserting a low probability of God? Phat writes:
Evidence is lacking period. If you have any evidence, you have to be able to show us what it is.
Evidence is lacking, according to some secular arguments. Phat writes:
Again... again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again... show us the f**king arguments, just one or two teeny, tiny little arguments. Give us a chance to show you where they go wrong. Don't just assume that they are right and we are wrong.
Apologists disagree, and have many arguments countering this, however. Phat writes:
Nonsense. You are the one who throws out the Bible when it doesn't fit your apologists' pronouncements. I am the one who is trying to get you to respect the Bible.
This specific evidence against God first seeks to discredit the Bible itself. Phat writes:
No, the jury is not out. You were out to lunch when they came in and gave their verdict.
The jury is still out... Phat writes:
Again... I am the one who is supporting what the Bible says. If your apologists have any arguments worth listening to, present them.
... as there are also many arguments supporting the Bible. Phat writes:
Stop saying "argue" when you mean "assert". And stop asserting that nonsense. I have told you many times that it's a lie. I would argue that humans by nature are defiant towards the idea of an authority that is "alien".All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
Not existing doesn't make it an irrational concept.
God is an inherently irrational concept.Unless you can provide any amount of evidence that suggests God actually exists? Stile writes:
The sharkfin soup is what defeats your whole argument. There is no place where it is "supposed to be". Sharkfin soup does exist. You're just looking in the wrong place. The same could apply to God.
Sharkfin soup on McDonald's menu is meant to show how we identify something that doesn't exist - look for where it's supposed to be and see that it's not there. Stile writes:
Still wrong. God is irrational - there is no evidence He exists.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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