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Author | Topic: Who Made God? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
You gad and I gad your gadding. Well, a debate at EvC wouldn't be the magnificent thing it is without the gadfly point of view.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I have met Jesus - exactly the same way as you have. I have also met Long John Silver and Tom Joad and Holden Caulfield.
Our secular humanist friends here at EvC collectively feel more comfortable with scientific and supportable theories vs. what they would consider empty beliefs. But then they have not yet met Jesus. Phat writes:
The question you should be asking is, "If something is not evident, how can you know whether it exists or not?" To me, the next question is this: Can something exist that is not evident?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How to Cook Forty Humans. Do you think that *we* are here for no purpose? I think I prefer my own made-up purpose.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
There is no argument about how evidence is defined. If everybody doesn't see it, it isn't evidence. You don't get your own private evidence. And this gets back to our old argument about how evidence is defined. What part of your Google Dictionary definition disagrees with that?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You don't have to take a poll of 7 billion people but yes, there has to be agreement. You can not, for example, use your feelings of spooks crawling around in your head as evidence.
So are you saying that humanity has to agree before it can be called evidence? Phat writes:
You can't use Hebrews 11 as your sole definition of evidence. Remember that the KJV was wrtiiten several centuries ago when our ideas about scientific evidence and even judicial evidence were very different. The NIV, for example, uses the word "assurance" instead. The ASV, the ESV and the RSV use "conviction".
Heb 11:1-2 writes: Phat writes:
Don't forget that I am the one who respects the dusty old book and you are the one who throws out the parts you don't like.
But of course that is a Dusty old book.... Phat writes:
Exactly. And there is far from a consensus as to the accuracy or evident meaning of said book (or books).All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
What I'm telling Phat is that the meaning of the word "evidence" has changed in four hundred years. The translators who produced the King James Version could not possibly have known how we would use the word four hundred years later.
Don't assume too much about the word choices for the more modern translations. Faith writes:
Which is why no translation is reliable in the first place.
Not only are the Greek texts corrupt... Faith writes:
There are copyright laws covering the new translations but there is no copyright on the corrupt Greek texts.
... there is a legal requirement that to justify publishing a new translation requires that it have a certain number of differences from those already published. Faith writes:
The whole point being that the words used in modern translations are not synonymous with the modern use of "evidence". So most of the changes are nothing more than synonyms for terms in other versions, with little or no actual translational justification.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Arbitrator and creator are not the same thing. In fact, the creator could be dead and somebody else could be the current arbitrator. Theodoric writes:
It means that through Him, all things were created. Not through a dead genius. Arbitrator of reality? WTF does that even mean?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You're shooting yourself in the foot. Jabberwocky is nonsense to everybody. Nobody believes it's "true". Nobody's brain is wired to believe it. You call it word salad because you are not a believer. Your brain is not wired to take leaps of faith. Thus to you, I may as well be saying’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe. All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I wouldn't even set foot in a showroom that didn't let me leave without buying something. You can conveniently browse the showroom without deciding to buy any of the products.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Your claims of his existence mean nothing. Jesus is the mediator. he arbitrator. Your exaggerated claims of His non-existence mean little.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
*shrug* Who cares what you believe? This is a discussion forum. Discuss something. One thing we believe, and that is that the arbitrator is most certainly not human.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Why do people chase any false idol, like Jesus?
So lets discuss the "god" known as money. Do we keep chasing this fale idol? Phat writes:
If we realize it's a false idol, why wouldn't we stop loving it and desiring it?
Do we stop loving and desiring it? Phat writes:
That's what your false idol Jesus told you to do.
Or do we simply give it all away in the form of spare change? Phat writes:
The government is a representative of society. Yes, your false idol Jesus told you to take care of your society and your society will take care of you. If your government is not standing up for your society properly, it's time to do something about your government. And who then do we trust to help us retire? The government?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It isn't a belief. It's a fact that claims alone have no value. Claims have to have something to back them up.
ringo writes:
You of course have a right to your belief. Your claims of his existence mean nothing. Phat writes:
But all you're doing is saying it. That's another claim with no value. Why don't you actually think about it and explain how I'm wrong? As I have a right to say you are wrong.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
"Nuh uh," is not an argument.
Often times I simply shoot these posts back to you in order to carry on the argument. Phat writes:
And vice versa. Even if every word I said was wrong, it doesn't make you right. What I'm starting to realize is that me being right does not automatically make you wrong. In fact, many times you are objectively wrong - but you try to defend your subjective position anyway. No wonder it's so hard to come up with an argument of substance.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
What qualifies you to ask?
What qualifies you as a Christian?quote:i.e. it isn't up to you to decide. If you want a first approximation:quote: All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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