Did the Flood really happen?

Thank you, you saved me from having to sketch it all out and figure out how to scan and post it. But what your schematic sketch shows, as would mine, is that the strata beneath the sea level line were not originally laid down there, and that the most probable explanation for all the disturbances found there is that they occurred due to the tectonic upheaval which caused them to be moved from their original straight flat condition on the island proper, above the sea level line, to their current location beneath the island. They were clearly originally as you illustrate them, stacked vertically, and clearly fell down into their current position with their upper broken-off ends now arranged horizontally across the island, giving ample opportunity for all kinds of disturbance and distortion to those strata on their way to their current position. You did a great job of illustrating this. I just had a little more I wanted to include in my sketches, which I describe above.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Seems to me it's the Old Earth system in which everything should be all jumbled up, not the Flood

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That is pretty obviously wrong. Fossils aren’t just going to jump out of the rock containing them to mix with later things. The Flood on the other hand supposedly happened in a single year while everything was alive - until the Flood killed it.

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The surface of the earth NOW is all jumbled up isn't it? Animals die willy-nilly on the surface, they don't get nicely buried in nice neat specific sediments, whether above or below the sea, let alone in conditions that would fossilze them.

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Neither the fossils or the sediments are as neat as you think. And how do you know nothing ends up in conditions that would allow fossilisation ? That would be very strange.

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Why should any previous time period, let alone, what, dozens? hundreds? of "time periods" be marked by such nice neat sedimentary strata with specific collections of fossils buried in them?

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They aren’t as neat as you say, and that is the way sedimentation works. The specific collections simply reflect the way life has changed over time. And you have no viable explanation for it at all.

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makes no sense at all that such periods of time should be marked out by flat neat sedimentary rocks of different kinds of sediment for every few million years,

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Environments change over time. Transgression and regression is a great example. And we can see environments changing in history, and even now as the sea levels rise and the glaciers melt.

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...and the effort to rationalize it has to involve extreme mental contortionism. Or just denial.

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Or just pointing out obvious facts, as I did.

It's the sediments above all that would have been jumbled. There's no reason for neat flat sedimentary rocks to exist in each time period at all, not even one time period let alone dozens, and all stacked up so neatly too . As for the fossils, there really should be a lot more fossils from early time periods mixed into each subsquent period than there are anyway, but certainly if things just die willynilly on the bottom of the sea or on the surface of the land, mostly there will be a LOT fewer that get fossilized but also there should be some jumbling, and there is none.Transgressions and regressions are just a way of accounting for what the Flood actually did, and they require you to have living land creatures roaming around where you postulate water covering the land anyway.I don't say NOTHING gets fossilzed, what I say is that there's way too much regularity about how things got buried and fossilized in the OE and ToE scenarios, and way too many neat sedimentary rocks and way too many fossilized creatures. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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It's the sediments above all that would have been jumbled. There's no reason for neat flat sedimentary rocks to exist in each time period at all, not even one time period let alone dozens .

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Again you’re just making assumptions. Sediment is being deposited today, and some of it will end up as rock. And why should it be jumbled ? We’re not assuming a massively violent global flood.

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As for the fossils, there really should be a lot more fossils from early time periods mixed into each subsquent period than there are anyway, but certainly if things just die willynilly on the bottom of the sea or on the surface of the land, mostly there will be a LOT fewer that get fossilized but also there should be some jumbling, and there is none.

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Given the timescales, no there shouldn’t be much jumbling. Fossils don’t just jump out of the rocks, and that is what it would take. Some fossils are eroded out and found in later rock - and they can be identified.

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Transgressions and regressions are just a way of accounting for what the Flood actually did, and they require you to have living creatures roaming around where you postulate water covering the land anyway.

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No, they are ways of accounting for specific sequences of rock that we wouldn’t expect your Flood to produce. And marine creatures generally do live in the sea.

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I don't say NOTHING gets fossilzed, what I say is that there's way too much regularity about how things got buried and fossilized in the OE and ToE scenarios, and way too many neat sedimentary rocks and way too many fossilized creatures.

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And that is all assumption without any solid basis at all.

Water produces layered sediments, why would you expect there to be any of the necessary conditions just happening to show up every few million years to lay down a new sediment on top of sediment laid down millions of years previously, all containing fossils just as the previous did, and the next and the next and the next. See THAT makes a LOT less sense than the Flood as the explanation for the geological column no matter how many objections you can think up against the Flood.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Water produces layered sediments, why would you expect there to be any of the necessary conditions just happening to show up every few million years to lay down a new sediment on top of sediment laid down millions of years previously, all containing fossils just as the previous did, and the next and the next and the next.

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The necessary conditions are often absent, and it’s not like there is any regular timetable. So what is the problem ?

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See THAT makes a LOT less sense than the Flood as the explanation for the geological column no matter how many objections you can think up against the Flood.

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No it doesn’t because the Flood makes no sense at all as an explanation of the geological column. It’s just a desperate mental contortion. That’s why you have to ignore most of the evidence.

No regular timetable. Hm. Funny how the strata just happen to show up regularly enough to form the geological column. Containing a specific bunch of fossils. Oh well.

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No regular timetable. Hm. Funny how the strata just happen to show up regularly enough to form the geological column

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Local columns vary. Very few places have strata from all the periods - and the periods are long stretches of time. Even the basins that have strata from all the periods don’t have continuous deposition from what I remember. So no, there is nothing funny there. It took a lot of work to correlate all the strata even in Europe, and more to relate them to the other continents.

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Containing a specific bunch of fossils.

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Which is hardly surprising if life changes over time. The problem is trying to explain it with a Flood. Especially when you include the trace fossils. Have you managed to sort out the contradiction yet ?

Hint: lots of little floods, often once per year, just like we see in reality.

Incredible as it may seem, each and every one of those animals that died was alive just before that. No dinosaurs died, no trilobites died, no ammonites died. None of the trillions of animals who died more than 100 years ago. None of them died today.Of the infinitesimal few that got buried and may become fossils, every single one was a species living today.All very neatly organized. Each fossil found in rocks of the period in which they lived and died.Whereas your fludde should have left Tyrannosaurs, ammonites, raptors, trilobites, and all the species that ever existed scattered throughout the geologic column. Unless the magic water sorted them by some process that violates everything we know of physics and hydrodynamics. We know a lot about physics and hydrodynamics. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

Exactly as our models predicted. Exactly as your fludde would not have.Yeah, it is convenient that the mainstream models fit the data, all the data, and produces accurate predictions. It's almost as if thousands of dedicated scientists have expended tremendous effort constructing and testing models that fit all the data, all of it, and produce accurate predictions.Oh, wait...THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.Gosh, it's just crazy how nature does natural stuff, isn't it?Only a YEC could consider the accuracy of a theory to be a strike against it. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

Sedimentation happens all the time. Always, now and last year and in the very distant past. Once in a while conditions change and the nature of the sediment changes and a new layer starts. But the only certainties are death, taxes, and continuous sedimentation.Floods don't produce the types of layers we see. Flumes are nothing like open water and are irrelevant to your fludde. Pyroclastic flow is not a liquid. Present some evidence for floods producing the kind of layers we see and we'll look at it.

I think of it this way ...Where do we find the purest sand deposits today? Where do we find the purest lime deposits today? Where do we find the purest muds today?Are those places in flood deposits? Are they on land? Are they in 'collapsed' sediments? In tsunami deposits?No, they are in marine settings in areas where the same processes have been occurring for ages. They are in places like beaches which are winnowed of fine silt and soft minerals leaving behind pure sand. They are in carbonate banks and coral reefs which have been building for thousands of years without contamination by mud and silt. They are in the deep sea where there is no source of sand or silt, and carbonates dissolve away leaving behind pelagic oozes.On the other hand we can look at rapidly deposited sediments such as turbidites where silt, sand and carbonates are deposited in the same formation. We can look at terrestrial stream deposits where channel sands cut through silty layers. We can see debris flows that dump every type of suspended sediment at once.Yes, we find the purest deposits with the largest lateral extents and the most distinct beds in areas where geological processes have been occurring for the longest times. Not in floods Now you confuse marine depositional environments with terrestrial environments. Which is the whole point. All you see is the terrestrial environment at one moment in time. Because those are the organisms that lived at the time deposition. And no, the sediments do not conform to any particular time period. That is because all you see is terrestrial environments, not the long-lived marine environments changing with time. So, you don't think the depositional environment could change over millions of years on a tectonically active planet? You would be the expert on that...Edited by edge, : No reason given.

Actually, there's nothing 'neat' about it.You seem to be under the illusion that the time periods are defined by rock formations. This is not the case and I think you have been told this several times before.All you need to do is look at the diagram explaining Walther's Law and you can see tht all of the sediment types are being deposited at the same time. Consequently, the layers that will form do not strictly conform to the various time periods. Edited by edge, : No reason given.Edited by edge, : No reason given.Edited by edge, : No reason given.Edited by edge, : No reason given.

If you are trying to communicate with Faith you should avoid at least 4 of those words which aren't helping.