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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 637 of 868 (856928)
07-04-2019 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 635 by Phat
07-03-2019 5:00 PM


Re: How To Determine Chosen Human Instruments
Phat writes:
All I am asserting is that a World War is likely.
You mean a War with the US being opposed by Every Other Nation on Earth?
That is certainly a possibility.
How do you think that would end for the US?
AbE:
Phat, what other nations have nuclear stockpiles?
Phat, what is the most likely delivery method for a nuclear device?
Phat, are there other threats than nuclear devices?
Phat, what are the delivery methods for those other threats?
Phat, which is more likely to be a deterrent to Iranian aggression; threatening total destruction or becoming the single largest consumer for Iranian oil?
Edited by jar, : see AbE;

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 635 by Phat, posted 07-03-2019 5:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 639 by Phat, posted 07-04-2019 12:43 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 641 of 868 (858127)
07-17-2019 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 640 by Dredge
07-17-2019 2:26 AM


Dredge writes:
What qualifies you as a Christian?
I was born into a Christian Family, raised as a Christian, Baptized in the Rite of Baptism, Confirmed in the Rite of Confirmation, educated in a Christian School and a registered member of a recognized Christian Denomination.
Sorry Charlie; you may not like it but the Fact is that I am a Christian.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 640 by Dredge, posted 07-17-2019 2:26 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 645 by Phat, posted 07-17-2019 5:47 PM jar has replied
 Message 661 by Dredge, posted 07-20-2019 7:44 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 648 of 868 (858153)
07-17-2019 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 644 by Phat
07-17-2019 5:40 PM


Phat writes:
I would thus argue that the main qualifier as to who is and is not a Christian is more than simply claim to belonging to some club. It is by daily works, a philosophical overview incorporating communion between God and Man, and a reasonable understanding of scripture apart from simple deduction that is unshared by the believers-at-large in general.
Nothing there but word salad Phat; you argue for a position totally divorced from reality that has no meaning. When you can explain how a communion between God and man is possible or even what that means, then perhaps you might have something other than fantasy.
Phat writes:
One obvious example: "The snake told the truth". Foolishness!!
Again, you argue for a position totally divorced from reality.
What is actually written in the story!
Edited by jar, : clear sig

This message is a reply to:
 Message 644 by Phat, posted 07-17-2019 5:40 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 649 of 868 (858154)
07-17-2019 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 645 by Phat
07-17-2019 5:47 PM


Re: No True Christian? Examine Yourselves Carefully!
Again, what I post related to being a Christian is actually based in reality and testable and verifiable.
And you still have not presented a model, method, mechanism, process or procedure to test whether Jesus is alive today or even explained what the hell that even means.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by Phat, posted 07-17-2019 5:47 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 662 of 868 (858499)
07-20-2019 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 661 by Dredge
07-20-2019 7:44 PM


My beliefs are, surprisingly my beliefs and have been outlined at EvC in detail.
But the fact remains that I am a registered member of a recognized Christian denomination and thus a Christian.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 661 by Dredge, posted 07-20-2019 7:44 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 663 by Phat, posted 07-21-2019 11:14 AM jar has not replied
 Message 673 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2019 11:21 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 665 of 868 (858520)
07-21-2019 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 664 by Phat
07-21-2019 11:19 AM


Re: jars Christianity
Phat writes:
That's what got Lucifer booted out in the first place.
That's Dante's Inferno Phat. In the Bible Lucifer (aka Satan) is God's servant and tester; even throughout the New Testament.
And exactly what can be gained by parking one's brain at the door?
Were we given brains so we could willfully refuse to use them?
But I was under the impression that the topic is "Who made God?" and so what does the evidence show?
Why is the God described in Genesis 1 entirely different than the God described in Genesis 2 & 3?
Why is your God any different than Ganesha or Thor or Ra or Jupiter or Raven or Coyote?
What does the evidence show?
AbE: and surrender to what Phat? It appears that the only surrendering is surrendering your ability to think and question the dogma and surrendering to what the Snake-Oil Salesman tell you the Bible really says rather than what is actually written.
Edited by jar, : see AbE:

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 664 by Phat, posted 07-21-2019 11:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 666 by Phat, posted 07-21-2019 12:41 PM jar has replied
 Message 681 by Phat, posted 07-27-2019 3:32 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 667 of 868 (858530)
07-21-2019 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 666 by Phat
07-21-2019 12:41 PM


Re: jars Christianity
Phat writes:
You conclude with a question rather than an answer.
No Phat; I am honest enough to understand that what I believe is not evidence of fact beyond the fact that I believe.
Should we not be honest?
Phat writes:
jar writes:
Why is your God any different than Ganesha or Thor or Ra or Jupiter or Raven or Coyote?
Because I believe in Him and follow Him. I do not believe any of those other ones nor do I follow them. My God is uniquely my God.
So your only response is that it is the God you have made up and not the God someone else made up.
I understand.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 666 by Phat, posted 07-21-2019 12:41 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 668 by Phat, posted 07-21-2019 1:25 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 669 of 868 (858533)
07-21-2019 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 668 by Phat
07-21-2019 1:25 PM


Re: jars Christianity
Phat writes:
Im not 100% convinced that I made Him up.
Did you not say "Because I believe in Him and follow Him. I do not believe any of those other ones nor do I follow them. My God is uniquely my God."
How is your belief any different than those of someone who follows Coyote or Raven or Thor or Ra or Ganesha or ...
Isn't the only difference what YOU choose to believe?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 668 by Phat, posted 07-21-2019 1:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 671 by Phat, posted 07-21-2019 4:26 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 672 of 868 (858544)
07-21-2019 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 671 by Phat
07-21-2019 4:26 PM


Re: Phats Crazy Illogical Belief
Phat writes:
I will, of course insist that all of the gods worshipped except mine are the counterfeits. And that will always get challenged.
And rightly challenged.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 671 by Phat, posted 07-21-2019 4:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 675 of 868 (858711)
07-23-2019 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 673 by Dredge
07-22-2019 11:21 PM


Dredge writes:
How could God ‘de-God’ Himself and became a mere creature (the man, Jesus)? How could a creature (the man, Jesus) became God? The mind boggles.
Yet that is exactly what is affirmed in the Nicene Creed. Beginning with the original version formulated in 325 AD which said "Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man;" and continuing throughout Christian history to the current version which is:
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
The various authors of the New Testament stories made quite a few claims.
But again, the notion of Jesus as something other than just man while alive on earth simply denigrates and diminshes any value to his life.
I simply honestly support the basics of the Christian faith and kinda laugh at the fumbling of the current CCoI.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 673 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2019 11:21 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 677 by Dredge, posted 07-26-2019 6:04 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 679 of 868 (859012)
07-26-2019 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 677 by Dredge
07-26-2019 6:04 PM


Dredge writes:
Your interpretation of the Nicene Creed is childishly superficial, misinformed and false. It’s also fundamentally irrational: How could God stop being God and become a mere creature - the man, Jesus? This is as absurd as your other contention, that a mere man - Jesus - became God!
Yet that is what the Nicene Creed says.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 677 by Dredge, posted 07-26-2019 6:04 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 710 by Dredge, posted 08-01-2019 9:45 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 682 of 868 (859056)
07-27-2019 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 681 by Phat
07-27-2019 3:32 PM


Re: jars Christianity
Phat writes:
And if you have to ask what that means, Dredge is right...you lack the Holy Spirit.(I believe that you are aware of Gods internal presence but you always ask the rest of us how we would know if we had it or not and what "it" even is.
And yet again, how can you tell the Holy Spirit from a Bad Burrito?
The question still remains?
Many folk claim that I do not have something yet never explain how to determine if such a thing even exists.
So what is the test to determine if you have "The Holy Spirit" and what does it mean "to have the Holy Spirit"?
Edited by jar, : appallin spallin is ---> if

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 681 by Phat, posted 07-27-2019 3:32 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 683 by dwise1, posted 07-27-2019 7:08 PM jar has replied
 Message 686 by Phat, posted 07-28-2019 10:32 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 684 of 868 (859058)
07-27-2019 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 683 by dwise1
07-27-2019 7:08 PM


Re: jars Christianity
The "Not perfect but forgiven" card sells well.
What can be seen and what can be tested is behavior.
When someone explains how to Test "Jesus is alive" or "born again" or "have you been saved" or "touched by the Holy Spirit" they may someday rise to the level of behavior.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 683 by dwise1, posted 07-27-2019 7:08 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 685 by dwise1, posted 07-28-2019 12:21 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 688 of 868 (859088)
07-28-2019 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 686 by Phat
07-28-2019 10:32 AM


back towards the topic
Again though, you do not even present any subjective evidence or any description of how to identify the Holy Spirit or differentiate between the Holy Spirit and some entity claiming to be the Holy Spirit.
No one doubts that you believe what you claim to believe just as I don't doubt the Dredge believes what he claims to believe but everyone can read and verify what is in the Nicene Creed and in each variation, permutation and iteration since 325 CE.
Each individual can actually read what is written in Genesis 2 & 3.
Each individual can actually go to the Bible and look at each version of the Road to Damascus story or the Great Commission and see how the versions evolve and change as they are modified in every retelling.
Everyone can actually read the Flood stories in Genesis 6 & 7 to compare them and list the differences and in incompatibilities.
Everyone can read the description of the God character in Genesis 1 vs the God character in Genesis 2 & 3.
Everyone can read Genesis 2 & 3 and see that the serpent told the truth, the God character did not and the God character punished Adam & Eve even though the God character specifically denied them the capability even know who to obey.
Beliefs exist.
But unless there is some way to test the beliefs they remain simply personal beliefs.
There are and have been many, many, many, many, many verifiable examples of Gods. Each God has had a core of believers.
Most of the Gods, just as when looking at the descriptions of God found in the Bible stories, are mutually exclusive. The God found in Genesis 1 is entirely different, a polar opposite of the God in Genesis 2 & 3.
So back to the question of "Who Made God" all of the evidence shows that Man made God.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 686 by Phat, posted 07-28-2019 10:32 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 689 by Phat, posted 07-28-2019 3:07 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 690 of 868 (859117)
07-28-2019 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 689 by Phat
07-28-2019 3:07 PM


Re: jar prefers Whiskey to Kool Aid
Phat writes:
Only because we choose to exalt our own reasoning and understanding of what we read over actually surrendering to Him.
That is not even word salad Phat. Not only does it have absolutely no meaning it requires an impossibility. We have no way to even surrendr reasoning other then a conscious decision to simply not think and even that requires reasoning.
Stop just posting utter nonsense.
Phat writes:
Of course you always ask how we can tell.
And no one ever provides an answer.
Phat writes:
you prefer sitting back and describing God as a character in a book.
Is there a God character in Genesis 1?
Is there a God Character in Genesis 2&3?
And are there not literally thousands of different God characters in the books?
I simply point out what is actually there Phat.
And the evidence, all of the evidence ever presented answers the question "Who Made God" with "Man Made God!"

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 689 by Phat, posted 07-28-2019 3:07 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 691 by Phat, posted 07-28-2019 4:29 PM jar has replied

  
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