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Author | Topic: The 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Campaign | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
LamarkNewAge Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 2236 Joined: |
quote: https://thehill.com/...il-fines-for-illegal-border-crossings It looks like 41% want to make illegal border crossings a crime verses 31% who want the crossing to result in a fine. Only 67% of Republicans want illegal immigration to be a crime.
quote: This was July 8, 2019. I am not sure there is evidence (unless I am missing something) that backs up the comment that there "isn't much support" for decriminalizing illegal border crossings. My source (above) indicates the opposition to decriminalizing is not exactly insurmountable, as it is simply a 4 in 10 plurality.
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LamarkNewAge Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 2236 Joined: |
Home of the Marist Poll | Polls, Analysis, Learning, and More
It showed 66% oppose decriminalizing verses 27% who support. People probably feel it was a question about Open Borders. The specific issue of a fine verses a crime shows a not-so-strong opposition to the technical term "decriminalization". 42% verses 31%. See my above post.
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LamarkNewAge Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 2236 Joined: |
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/...Tables_1907190926.pdf#page=3
Scroll about 70% down for poll. "Do you think decriminalizing illegal border crossings is a good idea ora bad idea?" It will sound like a question about Open Borders to most people. 47% of Democrats say it is a bad idea verses 45% who say it is a good idea. Overall 66% say bad idea. 27% say good idea. Decriminalization is a technical word. It sounds like one is making illegal immigration 100% legal. But the word requires a definition so people know what it means. But see this poll which, again, is specific. https://thehill.com/...il-fines-for-illegal-border-crossings 41% say illegal immigration should be a crime. 32% say it should result in the offender (notice the language of GUILT in the description) getting a fine alone. Now, there will be complications when one has to keep going deeper. The questions will come. What should come after the fine? And so on.
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LamarkNewAge Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 2236 Joined: |
(a friend just told me this, and I am not sure if he is accurately quoting what Axelrod just said during post-debate commentary on CNN)
Apparently, Axelrod just said that Democrats have to drop "the decriminalization card" because "Democrats need to face the fact that even many Democrats simply don't agree with decriminalization". The truth is that only 67% of Republicans will say illegal immigrants should be criminals for crossing the border without papers. (33% are unsure or think it should result in a fine as opposed to getting a criminal charge -felony or misdemeanor) Right now, illegal border crossers are charged with a misdemeanor criminal offense. If it is the first time getting caught anyway. (62% overstay a VISA, mind you, and that is the same thing as somebody who lacks papers when they initially come over) Amazing that the much maligned Koch-brothers have made it clear they will support pro-trade, pro-immigration Democrats over Trump Republicans for every federal office, yet Axelrod says Democrats should drop pro-immigration policies to win those voters who are politically on the margins (swing voters). Amazing that only 41% of Americans start off with a position supporting criminal charges against (what are currently ILLEGAL status) illegal immigrants for their border. Axelrod wants Democratic candidates to drop decriminalization as an election issue, so they can be salable to the electorate. Democratic candidates could, actually, fight for making migrants SAFE FROM CRIMINAL CHARGES, and the fight - ALONE - would hold those who support criminally charging migrants into a territory that is below 50% (or no worse than the low-mid 50's percentage PRESENTLY, with further progress in eroding the anti-immigration support in future years beyond 2019/2020). Fight for just public policy, and let the political winds blow as they may. I don't care if there is a narrow loss TODAY, when 2-4 years down the road there will be support. I just heard Axelrod (11:13 PM Central talk crap to Senator Warren LIVE) say the Americans don't agree with her on decriminalization. My friend is correct on the general report he gave me. I think he might have fudged the "card" use by Axelrod, however.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
Apparently, Axelrod just said that Democrats have to drop "the decriminalization card" because "Democrats need to face the fact that even many Democrats simply don't agree with decriminalization". I still don't know what it is that they actually want and at this point I don't think they know what they want. They say the border patrol is akin to the gestapo but many say it's "bullshit" that democrats want open borders and to stop using that argument. So what exactly is it that you do want? Because as it stands, CPB is enforcing laws that Congress passed. And then Congress are the one's who bitch about it as if CPB has any control over what laws are passed. I mean... seriously? "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4344 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.9
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Because as it stands, CPB is enforcing laws that Congress passed. And then Congress are the one's who bitch about it as if CPB has any control over what laws are passed. I mean... seriously? So, Congress passed a law that says the border patrol has to lock people up in cells with standing room only, no sanitation or medical care? Congress passed a law that says children of all ages should be locked up in cages with no sanitation or adult care? I'll tell you what, let's just shoot them all, then everyone will be happy.[/sarcasm]What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Because as it stands, CPB is enforcing laws that Congress passed. And then Congress are the one's who bitch about it as if CPB has any control over what laws are passed. I mean... seriously?
Now you know that that is not true.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Elizabeth Warren masterfully destroys Chris Matthews’ gotcha question
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
What is best is she is right. Costs are the killer.
Love that girl.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Elizabeth Warren masterfully destroys Chris Matthews’ gotcha question. The question is not how much tax cost will change, but how much the total cost/s for healthcare will change The Koch brother study showed that the total healthcare costs would go down with Bernie's "medicare for all" plan. There would be less out of pocket and co-pay costs and the current medicare costs are less than comparable insurance company costs (because no profit gouging).
quote: With "medicare for all" the government would also be in a position to negotiate drug costs with big pharmacy and bring costs more in line with what you see in Canada for the same medications:
quote: Of course the Pharmacy companies are contributing to other candidates to prevent this from happening ... Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : added koch studyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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The Koch report was highly deceptive and highly misrepresented costs. Like Chris Matthews they do not care about total costs. The report and Matthews are just trying to get a Gotcha sound clip.
The amazing thing is that this was a study with a thumb on the scale. Even with the thumb on the scale it shows a saving of $2 trillion over 10 years. This is why the GOP and their funders are scared. They have to outright lie in order for their arguments to even make sense.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Back when Newt demonized Hilary Clintons push for Universal Health Care he clearly stated that the issue was that the party that can implement universal health care will hold political control of the White House and both Houses of Congress for at least a half century. Of course the current crop of so called conservatives have also been too stupid to implement universal health care when they did control both houses of Congress.
More evidence of the Deplorables.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
So, Congress passed a law that says the border patrol has to lock people up in cells with standing room only, no sanitation or medical care? Congress passed a law that says children of all ages should be locked up in cages with no sanitation or adult care? I think 90% of that controversy is embellished, but I don't want to get lost in the weeds in the minutia. I'm curious to know what precisely most Democrats want when it comes to the border. Everything I've seen seems to indicate an open border. Whenever that's mentioned, they say, no but offer no real provisions. So what is it that Democrats want when it comes to immigration policy? "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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Everything I've seen seems to indicate an open border.
Please show one prominent Democrat that has advocated for an open border. Edited by Theodoric, : new subtitleFacts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
what's the difference between an open border and not enforcing immigration laws?
no democrat plans to enforce immigration laws. i don't care. hispanics are helping keep the catholic church going. it's great. except for the MS-13 cold-blooded killers and illegal criminals who murder americans once they cross. just saying. Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.
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