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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 796 of 2370 (859198)
07-29-2019 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 795 by ringo
07-29-2019 5:34 PM


Re: once again now: the strata would originally NOT have been where the diagram has them
That line is the bottom edge of the drawing by William Smith, it is obviously sea level, where the land meets the water. Yes the strata continue from the horizontally arranged pieces of strata whose tops are clearly broken off, to the strata beneath the line, where they appear to me to be on the soggy side from being underwater.

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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 797 of 2370 (859199)
07-29-2019 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 794 by JonF
07-29-2019 3:50 PM


Re: evidence?
I described the ENORMOUS geographic extent of the srata that make up the geo column in the Midwest and in the Grand Canyon/Grand Staircase area. Today's sedimentary deposits in a mere lakebed are pathetically small by comparison and couldnlt possibly be a continuation of the geo column.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 798 of 2370 (859200)
07-29-2019 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 794 by JonF
07-29-2019 3:50 PM


Re: evidence?
What part of Arizona? And what depth is shown here? You need a lot more information.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 800 of 2370 (859203)
07-29-2019 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 799 by ringo
07-29-2019 6:30 PM


Re: once again now: the strata would originally NOT have been where the diagram has them
Pretty odd then that William Smith didn't include them in his cross section.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 799 by ringo, posted 07-29-2019 6:30 PM ringo has replied

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 Message 801 by ringo, posted 07-29-2019 6:35 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 802 of 2370 (859205)
07-29-2019 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 763 by Sarah Bellum
07-28-2019 2:38 PM


Re: evidence?
The flood would not have laid down many layers, it would have laid down a simple structure with larger stones precipitating out first and, of course no igneous or metamorphic strata. Consider the strata shown by the valley of the Grand Canyon. The flood certainly wouldn't have laid down volcanic basalt at a low level, sandstone in the Bright Angel formation, limestone and dolomite in the Muav formation, shale in the Supai formation, sandstone in the Coconino formation, shale in the Toroweap formation, lava and cinders in the Shivwits and Uinkaret formations and sedimentary rock on top of that lava.
And that's just a few of the many, many different layers.
I've analyzed the Grand Canyon in great detail. The volcanic action clearly occurred after all the sedimentary strata were in place. The sediments were laid down separately so each layer would be sorted by size within itself, the layers wouldn't sort according to each's overall size.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 763 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-28-2019 2:38 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 827 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-29-2019 9:13 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 829 by PaulK, posted 07-30-2019 12:49 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 833 by Theodoric, posted 07-30-2019 9:21 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 836 by Percy, posted 07-30-2019 10:11 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 803 of 2370 (859206)
07-29-2019 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 801 by ringo
07-29-2019 6:35 PM


Re: once again now: the strata would originally NOT have been where the diagram has them
That's not the Smith diagram.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 801 by ringo, posted 07-29-2019 6:35 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 804 by ringo, posted 07-29-2019 6:43 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 805 of 2370 (859208)
07-29-2019 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 804 by ringo
07-29-2019 6:43 PM


Re: once again now: the strata would originally NOT have been where the diagram has them
This is the original cross section by William Smith. The other is an elaboration of it. Sorry, I should have posted it earlier but I wrongly assumed you'd know what I was talking about.
The horizontal line at the bottom is clearly sea level. That line is also drawn on the other diagram, showing that the distorted strata beneath that line are under water.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 804 by ringo, posted 07-29-2019 6:43 PM ringo has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 806 of 2370 (859209)
07-29-2019 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 788 by Percy
07-29-2019 1:21 PM


Re: once again now: the strata would originally NOT have been where the diagram has them
The short pieces of tilted strata are easier to see on the original Smith cross section. ALL of them in his picture are broken off tilted short pieces of strata. He apparently didn't know that they continue beneath the island so he only drew how they look on the surface.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 788 by Percy, posted 07-29-2019 1:21 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 814 by JonF, posted 07-29-2019 7:23 PM Faith has replied
 Message 843 by Percy, posted 07-30-2019 4:27 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 808 of 2370 (859211)
07-29-2019 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 807 by ringo
07-29-2019 6:53 PM


Re: once again now: the strata would originally NOT have been where the diagram has them
The tops of the strata had to be broken off. Percy says they were eroded off. But they would originally have been long lengths of strata right? They had to be broken off.

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 Message 807 by ringo, posted 07-29-2019 6:53 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 809 by ringo, posted 07-29-2019 7:00 PM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 810 of 2370 (859213)
07-29-2019 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 809 by ringo
07-29-2019 7:00 PM


Re: once again now: the strata would originally NOT have been where the diagram has them
They originally had other ends.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 815 of 2370 (859218)
07-29-2019 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 814 by JonF
07-29-2019 7:23 PM


Re: once again now: the strata would originally NOT have been where the diagram has them
I've said dozens of times already that the strata we see on the surface continue below the sea level line and form that distorted block of strata we see there.
They had to have been broken at their tops.
You do realize they are not in their original position, don't you? They had to have been stacked one on top of another originally, then they fell down into this current arrangement and the rest of the strata went beneath the sea level line.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 818 by JonF, posted 07-29-2019 7:28 PM Faith has replied
 Message 819 by JonF, posted 07-29-2019 7:31 PM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 817 of 2370 (859220)
07-29-2019 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 816 by JonF
07-29-2019 7:27 PM


Re: once again now: the strata would originally NOT have been where the diagram has them
Why on earth would I WANT it to be so? I have no need for it to be so. It just looks that way to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 816 by JonF, posted 07-29-2019 7:27 PM JonF has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 820 of 2370 (859223)
07-29-2019 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 818 by JonF
07-29-2019 7:28 PM


Re: once again now: the strata would originally NOT have been where the diagram has them
Whut?
I've been trying to get across how I see it as Percy tries to illustrate it:
Start with long straight horizontal strata stacked from Cambrian up to Holocene.
Tectonic activity raises the rock/mountain beneath this column of strata, causing them to break into two sections.
The left or west side falls into the sea.
The right or east side falls down so that the upper broken-off ends form the short tilted rocks on the surface of the island arranged from west to east,
while the rest of their length continues beneath the sea level line forming the distorted strata we see there.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 818 by JonF, posted 07-29-2019 7:28 PM JonF has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 822 of 2370 (859225)
07-29-2019 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 819 by JonF
07-29-2019 7:31 PM


Re: once again now: the strata would originally NOT have been where the diagram has them
They had to fall into place because strata are not laid down as we see them, they are laid down each horizontally and stacked vertically one on top of the other. This is how they had to be originally so we need a way to explain how they got into their current position, and that's what I'm visualizing for Percy to try to illustrate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 819 by JonF, posted 07-29-2019 7:31 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 837 of 2370 (859276)
07-30-2019 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 836 by Percy
07-30-2019 10:11 AM


Well, in Re: evidence?
Funny, as I recall, you have always been the one with the inability to understand physical reality. In any case, since this IS a debate, I DO disagree with you about my study of the Grand Canyon area and my conclusions.
Cheers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 836 by Percy, posted 07-30-2019 10:11 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 839 by ringo, posted 07-30-2019 12:54 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 842 by RAZD, posted 07-30-2019 3:14 PM Faith has replied
 Message 847 by Percy, posted 07-30-2019 5:34 PM Faith has not replied

  
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