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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 871 of 2370 (859451)
07-31-2019 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 862 by JonF
07-31-2019 4:03 PM


Re: Ice age
We are still technically in an ice age. That has nothing to do with the fact that the climate is changing extremely quickly, largely caused by our industrialization.
It has to have something to do with it if it's receding and contributing to global warming.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 862 by JonF, posted 07-31-2019 4:03 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 880 by JonF, posted 07-31-2019 7:27 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 872 of 2370 (859454)
07-31-2019 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 864 by Percy
07-31-2019 4:28 PM


Re: evidence?
We all agree that the sedimentary deposits of the past 4500 years are minuscule compared to the billions of years of sedimentary deposits that came before.
Aha. Then if we agree on that, surely we can agree that the geological column is over and done with, absolutely kaput.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 864 by Percy, posted 07-31-2019 4:28 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 881 by JonF, posted 07-31-2019 7:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 873 of 2370 (859456)
07-31-2019 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 861 by Percy
07-31-2019 3:57 PM


Re: evidence?
By "extent" I mean "extent," geographic extent, surface area. One does not use the term for depth. JonF is doing the usual rationalization of teeny weeny little sedimentary deposits as the continuation of the geological column. When its paltry geographical extent, or its area, is pointed out, this should disqualify any claim to being part of the geological column. You all keep putting up utterly inadequate candidates for that role, either sediments on a paltry scale by comparison though in the right place, or sediments on an enormous scale in the wrong place. None of it works. The Geological Column is Over and Done With. This is obvious in many places, including the Grand Staircase where it comes to a very decided end at the very top in the Claron formation. And these facts I'm discussing now are more evidence of its having ended, which is evidence that it was a singular event that laid down all the strata, an event that has long since ended, which is evidence for the Flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 861 by Percy, posted 07-31-2019 3:57 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 874 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-31-2019 6:37 PM Faith has replied
 Message 882 by JonF, posted 07-31-2019 7:36 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 890 by Percy, posted 08-01-2019 10:30 AM Faith has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 874 of 2370 (859463)
07-31-2019 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 873 by Faith
07-31-2019 6:13 PM


Re: evidence?
Delusional, fantasy fiction.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 873 by Faith, posted 07-31-2019 6:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 875 by Faith, posted 07-31-2019 6:40 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 875 of 2370 (859464)
07-31-2019 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 874 by Tanypteryx
07-31-2019 6:37 PM


Re: evidence?
Aw, you're just saying that...
And my guess is you don't even know what I'm talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 874 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-31-2019 6:37 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 876 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-31-2019 6:47 PM Faith has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 876 of 2370 (859466)
07-31-2019 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 875 by Faith
07-31-2019 6:40 PM


Re: evidence?
And my guess is you don't even know what I'm talking about.
A delusional geological column.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 875 by Faith, posted 07-31-2019 6:40 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 877 of 2370 (859468)
07-31-2019 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 868 by Faith
07-31-2019 5:52 PM


Re: AgainRe: evidence?
The geologic column is defined as under every point on Earth. If you insist on speaking only of layers on the land, you are not talking about the geologic column. Use a different term.
Especially since there are plenty of huge layers under the oceans and they are still building. You can't admit that the places where lots of deposition is taking place are the places where lots of deposition is taking place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 868 by Faith, posted 07-31-2019 5:52 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 878 of 2370 (859469)
07-31-2019 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 869 by Faith
07-31-2019 5:54 PM


Re: evidence?
No, but there are places where it is so extensive there is no doubting that its overall extent far exceeds anything being deposited today.
Except in the places where almost all the deposition is happening, on top of the geologic column.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 869 by Faith, posted 07-31-2019 5:54 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 879 of 2370 (859471)
07-31-2019 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 870 by Faith
07-31-2019 5:57 PM


Re: evidence?
commandeer the ocean beds as the next layer of the geo column, are ...I'm trying to avoid insulting language ... how about "inadequate.
No, that's not appropriate, nor is" commandeer ".
The geologic column by definition, now and in the past and in the future, underlies everywhere on Earth, including the oceans.
That's a fact, with which many YECs agree.
You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts. The geologic column underlies all the Earth.
You are trying to define "transportation" as "gasoline engined vehicles" and insisting that diesel, wind, and pedal-driven vehicles are not transportation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 870 by Faith, posted 07-31-2019 5:57 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 880 of 2370 (859472)
07-31-2019 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 871 by Faith
07-31-2019 6:01 PM


Re: Ice age
It isn't contributing significantly to global warming. We are the problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 871 by Faith, posted 07-31-2019 6:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 881 of 2370 (859473)
07-31-2019 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 872 by Faith
07-31-2019 6:03 PM


Re: evidence?
Then if we agree on that, surely we can agree that the geological column is over and done with, absolutely kaput.
Does not follow. The geologic column continues to grow in areas of net deposition, such as the ocean floors. It grows exceedingly slowly, but it grows.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 872 by Faith, posted 07-31-2019 6:03 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 882 of 2370 (859474)
07-31-2019 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 873 by Faith
07-31-2019 6:13 PM


Re: evidence?
teeny weeny little sedimentary deposits as the continuation of the geological column.
Any deposition, teeny weeny or huge, is extending the geologic column. But the ocean floors are large. There's no such thing as sediments on any scale in the wrong places. All places on Earth are right.
I posted three definitions that agree with us and refute you. I can dig up plenty more. You have no support for your version except your pitiful need to exclude almost all the places of net deposition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 873 by Faith, posted 07-31-2019 6:13 PM Faith has not replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 595 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 883 of 2370 (859477)
07-31-2019 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 850 by Faith
07-31-2019 1:53 PM


Re: Ice age
You say we're in the end part of an Ice Age. How many ice ages do you think there have been since the end of your flood (which took place, as near as can be calculated from the Bible, during the Egyptian Sixth Dynasty)?
Even if there were only one Ice Age in the handful of centuries since the Sixth Dynasty, is that really enough time, considering the number of layers in ice cores and the slow rate of advance of glaciers?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 850 by Faith, posted 07-31-2019 1:53 PM Faith has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 884 of 2370 (859483)
07-31-2019 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 869 by Faith
07-31-2019 5:54 PM


evidence? -- Time, geological time
No, but there are places where it is so extensive there is no doubting that its overall extent far exceeds anything being deposited today.
... except when you look at the actual time for those accumulations and compare them to the rates of accumulation we see today, it all falls in place. Literally.
So your problem comes down to time, and what is real actual time. Again I direct you to Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 which shows that (a) there was no flood for the duration of the annual counting methods for measuring time, and (b) that there was plenty of time for the slow accumulation of sediments on the ocean bottoms that later became Utah.
For example:
From Message 831 we see 35 meters deposited over 42,000 years at Lake Suigetsu. That's 0.8333 mm per year, and over a million years that would result in sediment 833.33 m thick. We know this time because of the annual layers of the diatom/clay varves, confirmed by 14C dating calibrations.
Plenty. Given actual geological time. Without any floods.
Enjoy
Edited by Admin, : Fix obvious typo: "833.33 km" => "833.33 m"

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 869 by Faith, posted 07-31-2019 5:54 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 885 by NosyNed, posted 07-31-2019 9:49 PM RAZD has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 885 of 2370 (859486)
07-31-2019 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 884 by RAZD
07-31-2019 9:35 PM


What? How thick?
From Message 831 we see 35 meters deposited over 42,000 years at Lake Suigetsu. That's 0.8333 mm per year, and over a million years that would result in sediment 833.33 km thick. We know this time because of the annual layers of the diatom/clay varves, confirmed by 14C dating calibrations.
35 meters in 42,00o years is 0.833 mm per year fine. But 1 million times that is only 833,300 mm which is 833 meters not kms.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 884 by RAZD, posted 07-31-2019 9:35 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 894 by RAZD, posted 08-02-2019 9:26 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
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