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Author Topic:   The 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Campaign
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 136 of 505 (859500)
07-31-2019 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Trump won
07-31-2019 10:34 PM


From what I understand you alt-Reich neo-Nazis kill more of us Americans than any other group foreign or domestic.
We could be a lot better off by getting rid of you and opening the border.
Just saying.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Trump won, posted 07-31-2019 10:34 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Trump won, posted 07-31-2019 10:54 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 137 of 505 (859501)
07-31-2019 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by AZPaul3
07-31-2019 10:52 PM


i'm not a nazi. welcome to my ignore list.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by AZPaul3, posted 07-31-2019 10:52 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 138 of 505 (859502)
07-31-2019 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Trump won
07-31-2019 10:54 PM


Ok not a nazi. Then just a garden variety racist.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 139 of 505 (859503)
07-31-2019 10:59 PM


i'm not racist. we're all descended from adam and eve.

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 505 (859504)
07-31-2019 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Theodoric
07-31-2019 10:06 PM


Re: Who is calling for open borders?
Please show one prominent Democrat that has advocated for an open border.
Answer the question I posed already and I'll answer yours. If you don't want open borders then what do you want?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Theodoric, posted 07-31-2019 10:06 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Theodoric, posted 07-31-2019 11:10 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 143 by Theodoric, posted 07-31-2019 11:16 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 141 of 505 (859507)
07-31-2019 11:04 PM


theodoric and azpaul3 have unwittingly provided ample evidence of hell. being in hearing distances of these dunces having an intellectual discussion.
Edited by messenjaH of oNe, : No reason given.

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 142 of 505 (859508)
07-31-2019 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Hyroglyphx
07-31-2019 10:59 PM


Re: Who is calling for open borders?
That is not how that works. You are claiming that most Democrats want open borders. Please show a prominent Democrat advocating for open borders. Once you clear that up, you can look at what the candidates are advocating for immigration reform. A number of them have policy papers on the subject. I have yet to see any call for open borders.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-31-2019 10:59 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-31-2019 11:47 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 143 of 505 (859510)
07-31-2019 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Hyroglyphx
07-31-2019 10:59 PM


Open borders? Who? Not Warren.
No open borders here.
Elizabeth Warren's stance on immigration
Edited by Theodoric, : subtitle

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-31-2019 10:59 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 144 of 505 (859514)
07-31-2019 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by RAZD
07-31-2019 6:02 PM


The government already spends $1.8 trillion per year on healthcare (out of $3.5 tril)
The government will need $1.7 trillion per year under a no co-pay (like Sanders seems to have) plan, or about $1.1 trillion under a plan where people pay 20% co-pays. (Medicaid is generally free, so that will be a no co-pay plan)
Then the $400-$500 billion savings in eliminating the insurance companies becomes vital in cost analysis.
The Sanders plan has a real cost of about $1.2 trillion a year, not $3-3.5 trillion, like the media keeps harping.
The others have a cost of about $600-$700 billion per year. (Medicare-For-All with 20% co-pays)
I suspect Sanders plan would require a 10% flat tax, which would be roughly in-between the 6% ObamaCare tax for the Bronze plan, or 12% for the Gold (or Silver) plan.
The 6% plan has a deductible of about $5000 a year, and only 60% coverage of covered costs.
The 12% plan covers 80% of covered costs and has a much smaller deductible.
But on to the drug issue.
quote:
With "medicare for all" the government would also be in a position to negotiate drug costs with big pharmacy and bring costs more in line with what you see in Canada for the same medications:
Banks earn more profits per year than drug companies.
Banks earned $67 billion in profits last year.
Pharmaceutical companies have a profit margin of less than 20% (more like 15% I think)
Even assuming, every last penny in profits will be taken, that will only be a 1.5-2% dent in total healthcare costs.
And it will have a major effect (very negative for us all) on drug development. (unless the government agrees to take up the cost of R & D like never before)
How about taking bank profits instead of pharmaceutical profits?
(perhaps they can be used for the poorly devised & ruinous price control schemes Democrats and Donald Trump are pushing?)
Why can't Donald Trump and the Democrats understand the value of industries and professions relative to one another?
quote:
Dutch historian: ‘200 years from now, borders and the way we treat animals will rank among our biggest crimes’
Published: July 30, 2019 12:21 p.m. ET
....
Bregman says universal basic income, where everybody starts by getting enough to live on, is all about freedom to make choices and unlocking potential, and it could potentially go a long way in righting some current wrongs.
If we actually rewarded people for the value of the work they do, I think that many bankers would earn a negative salary while many nurses and teachers will be millionaires, he said. This is one of the most important effects of a guaranteed basic income. If you actually give those garbage collectors and nurses and teachers more bargaining power, they can always go on strike. And we know what happens when the garbage collectors go on strike it’s a terrible disaster.
Bregman went on to make the case for open borders.
I think you can easily make the argument that borders are the biggest source of inequality world-wide, he said. 60% of your income is dependent simply on where you were born something that you didn’t choose.
He explained that most of the anti-immigration bullet points they’ll take our jobs, they’re lazy, they’re criminals, etc. don’t stand up to the data.
Dutch historian: ‘200 years from now, borders and the way we treat animals will rank among our biggest crimes’ - MarketWatch
Democrats (and Trump) want to avoid funding health care coverage for prescription drugs, but want to nickle and dime the pharmaceutical industry to the point of cutting all of our throats.
Why are banks a sacred cow?
What do banks do?
What innovation do they bring?

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 505 (859515)
07-31-2019 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Theodoric
07-31-2019 11:10 PM


Re: Who is calling for open borders?
quote:
Elizabeth Warren has an immigration plan. Here are the highlights:
*Decriminalizes unauthorized immigration and returns to the civil enforcement we had before George Bush began Operation Streamline.
*Eliminates abusive immigration enforcement and keeps law enforcement at arms length from CBP and ICE.
*Reduces and reforms immigrant detention.
*Reforms immigration courts.
*Raises the refugee cap to 125,000 and affirms refugee protections.
*Reforms legal immigration and creates a path to citizenship.
This is a curious plan. As near as I can tell, it recommends no actions to improve border law enforcement in any way. There’s nothing about either a wall or a virtual wall. There’s nothing about E-Verify. There’s nothing about smarter or more efficient enforcement. No one will ever be deportedexcept, presumably, for serious felons, though Warren doesn’t even say that explicitly. Expedited removal will be ended. The Border Patrol will be reshaped from top to bottom, and will focus their efforts on homeland security efforts like screening cargo, identifying counterfeit goods, and preventing smuggling and trafficking. The whole thing is very similar to Julian Castro’s plan.
I have previously criticized Republicans who accused liberals of wanting open borders. President Trump tweets about this endlessly. But I have to admit that it’s hard to see much daylight between Warren’s plan and de facto open borders.
Source from a liberal rag so you can't conveniently dismiss it
Now answer the question that I asked first... If you or other Democrats don't want open borders, then what do you want when it comes to immigration?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Theodoric, posted 07-31-2019 11:10 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-01-2019 12:10 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 149 by jar, posted 08-01-2019 9:42 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 151 by ooh-child, posted 08-01-2019 10:51 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 152 by AZPaul3, posted 08-01-2019 11:22 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 154 by Theodoric, posted 08-01-2019 11:54 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 155 by Percy, posted 08-01-2019 2:33 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 146 of 505 (859516)
08-01-2019 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Hyroglyphx
07-31-2019 2:03 PM


Re: David Axelrod is a liar ( telling disgusting lies about decriminalization)
quote:
I still don't know what it is that they actually want and at this point I don't think they know what they want. They say the border patrol is akin to the gestapo but many say it's "bullshit" that democrats want open borders and to stop using that argument. So what exactly is it that you do want? Because as it stands, CPB is enforcing laws that Congress passed. And then Congress are the one's who bitch about it as if CPB has any control over what laws are passed. I mean... seriously?
Democratic candidates often want to use people for votes.
The 2 anti-decriminalization Colorado candidates are examples of that
(Hickenlopper, to his credit, is pro free-trade, unlike the worthless & dishonest Bennett)
Others candidates are more sincere in putting their political butts on the line to defend immigrants.
Booker and Warren come to mind.
Decriminalization means there is lots of border control (like Castro pointed out tonight), but those who make it past the border get fined for the civil violation.
Americans feel paperless (the law actually says "paperless" though we call them illegal immigrants) immigrants should be put on a pathway to citizenship.
Biden opposed decriminalization and supports paperless immigrants being charged as criminals and then (possibly) deported, as we saw him say tonight.
20% of Republicans support charging illegal immigrants in civil court (thus the immigrants will not be criminally "illegal"), and 13% of the grand old party is undecided.
24% of Democrats support charging the immigrants as criminals.
Only 67% of Republicans want to make the "illegal" immigrants criminals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-31-2019 2:03 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 147 of 505 (859517)
08-01-2019 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Hyroglyphx
07-31-2019 11:47 PM


The law making immigration a "crime" came in 1929
Decriminalize the Border? Obviously. But Then What?
Part of the article.
quote:
What is Improper Entry?
The crime itself found at section 1325, Title 8 of the US Code is actually called improper entry, not illegal entry. Section 1325 makes eluding inspection by immigration officers, or willfully misleading them, a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a fine of at least fifty dollars. Doing it a second time is a felony offense and is punishable by up to two years in jail. Hoping to control immigration from Mexico, in 1929, Congress made it a crime to enter the United States without going through controlled inspection areas.
Many critics have pointed out that the law was drafted by Coleman Livingston Blease, a white supremacist senator from South Carolina. But being written by racists is hardly a distinctive feature in American law, or immigration law in particular.
Five years earlier, Congress passed the Immigration Act of 1924, which was heavily influenced by the American eugenics movement. The 1924 law banned virtually all immigrants from Asia, the feeble-minded, alcoholics, and the physically disabled from immigrating to the United States.
The immigration controls started in 1924, but immigration was not a crime until 1929.
The "crime" was not effectively charged that way until 2004.
The 1929 law was almost unused for 75 years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-31-2019 11:47 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 148 of 505 (859518)
08-01-2019 12:29 AM


1000 Americans were scientifically polled on fines verses criminal charges
250 18 to 34 year-olds
260 35 to 49 year-olds
280 50 to 64 year-olds
210 65+ year olds
The results:
317 said "Face civil fines"
413 said "Be subject to criminal prosecution"
A 9.6% gap in favor of making migrants criminals.
But 27% were undecided
https://thehill.com/...il-fines-for-illegal-border-crossings
BUT LOOK AT THE RESULTS FOR THOSE UNDER 50
The 250 18 to 34 year-olds answered the poll saying:
141 (or 56%) said there should only be a fine, while 61 (24%) said there should be criminal charges, and 48 (19%) were undecided.
There were 260 35-49 year olds polled. They said:
69 said fine ( 27%). 110 said it should be a crime (42%). 81 were not sure (31%).
That is 510 under 50, and 210 to 171 supported decriminalization, with 129 not sure.

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 149 of 505 (859521)
08-01-2019 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Hyroglyphx
07-31-2019 11:47 PM


Re: Who is calling for open borders?
Hyroglyphx writes:
If you or other Democrats don't want open borders, then what do you want when it comes to immigration?
Since I am a Republican and not a Democrat I hope I'm still allowed to post what I'd like to see.
What existed for over 200 years, a Welcoming Border. Set up Welcoming Facilities where immigrants can be checked for infectious diseases, where they can be provided any immediate treatment needed, where they can learn basics US laws and what they can and cannot do, where they can get assistance in finding jobs or transportation to join family or friends already in the US.
If an immigrant commits a crime in the US there is already a legal system in place to deal with it; however all of the evidence so far is that immigrants are generally more law abiding than the general citizenry.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 150 of 505 (859522)
08-01-2019 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Hyroglyphx
07-31-2019 9:39 PM


Work for citizenship
... I'm curious to know what precisely most Democrats want when it comes to the border. ...
I would like a very lenient border that encourages immigration, with a work to citizenship program. Similar to the old indentured servants when the country was founded, but with more rights: as long as you stay in the program you get living wage and benefits, and there would be night classes in english and American history, including the constitution. After 5 years you take your citizenship exam.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
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