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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1021 of 2370 (860020)
08-05-2019 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 973 by Percy
08-04-2019 3:48 PM


Layers conspicuous by their absence ....
It would probably be fair to say that "geological column" has more than one definition, and one of those is as a conceptual and worldwide geologic timescale that can be superimposed upon any columnar sequence of rock formations. Wikipedia's definition of the geologic column is very detailed. There's also a Wikibook called Historical Geology/Geological column that puts the geologic column in historical perspective.
JonF provided a number of other definitions of geologic column, and you're using one of those, where each plot of ground has its own geologic column that is a partial representation of the conceptual geologic column of time periods.
Indeed. The whole world wide pattern could be integrated into a single model of geological deposition over time with an absolute timescale -- in effect the spacial/temporal matrix -- that covers the whole earth. Some strata would be seen in some areas but not others, and no single strata covers the whole earth in a single layer. The iridium layer comes closest, but it too is absent in some locations.
This absence of different layers in different locations is, IMHO, one of the major problems with Faith's assertions.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 973 by Percy, posted 08-04-2019 3:48 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 1022 of 2370 (860021)
08-05-2019 9:50 AM


Back to the coins.
Imagine a stack of coins with coins from many different countries. Now imagine that several different kids made stacks using the coins that they had found, again, coins from many different countries.
Now imagine a scientist examining each of the different stacks. He will look at each coin and be able to tell what country it came from and even what type of coin it is.
That's exactly what we see in the cores made all over the world, layers that can be identified individually showing the type of material and even it's source; whether it was from an ocean floor or lake bed or volcano or forest or river bed or desert or ...
Each core from the geologic column from all over the earth is unique and each column is constantly changing; sometimes material being added and sometimes material being removed. But the changes all come at the very top of the stack.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1023 of 2370 (860022)
08-05-2019 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1000 by Faith
08-04-2019 7:02 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Faith writes:
Correction: Nobody HERE agrees with me, OR No OE/ToE believer agrees with me.
Really? Find someone, anyone, who agrees with you about the geologic column being restricted to continents.
I don't know why you're making this silly claim that there are creationists out there who believe as you do. You're already on record in at least several threads as conceding that other creationists don't agree with you, that you have to go your own way. Why would it be any different about the geologic column?
In thread A test for claimed knowledge of how macroevolution occurs Dredge abandoned you at Message 212. In thread Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor? you abandoned Dredge at Message 1237. And so it goes. You creationists can't stick together because you all have your own personal interpretations of a religious book of myths.
Find the facts that support your position, then marshal them into coherent arguments. Stop making silly claims, like that that diagram shows broken off strata when it clearly doesn't, or that geologic columns only grow on continents.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1000 by Faith, posted 08-04-2019 7:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1025 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:26 AM Percy has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1024 of 2370 (860028)
08-05-2019 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1000 by Faith
08-04-2019 7:02 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Correction: Nobody HERE agrees with me, OR No OE/ToE believer agrees with me.
Nobody in the entire world agrees with you. Answers in Genesis, one of the best known YEC organizations, disagrees with you; I posted their definition.
Post a quote from someone who agrees with you.
Of course you can't, because nobody agrees with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1000 by Faith, posted 08-04-2019 7:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1025 of 2370 (860030)
08-05-2019 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1023 by Percy
08-05-2019 10:03 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Perhaps my view is unique to me then. I *have* said, after all, that I study these things for myself and come to my own conclusions. In many cases I find out that my conclusions agree with other YECs on a point, but sometimes I don't. Dredge and I don't agree on much, but then he's not a YEC.
I don't think what I've said is silly and in most cases I would just repeat it, and of course there's no point in that. Perhaps we should move on. After you've got all your objections said of course.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1023 by Percy, posted 08-05-2019 10:03 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1031 by JonF, posted 08-05-2019 10:37 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 1040 by Percy, posted 08-05-2019 11:33 AM Faith has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1026 of 2370 (860032)
08-05-2019 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1002 by Faith
08-04-2019 7:38 PM


Re: Basics Faith, basics.
If you have a stack of thirty silver dollars and you put a dime on top of it -- or even three or four dimes -- are you continuing the same stack of coins?
Yes, just as different layers in the geologic column are part of the same stack.
If, analogous to the case of the geologic column, the stack is defined as all the stacks in the room...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1002 by Faith, posted 08-04-2019 7:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1028 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:33 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1027 of 2370 (860033)
08-05-2019 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1003 by jar
08-04-2019 8:57 PM


Re: Basics Faith, basics.
Of course not. And in fact that is exactly what is seen in reality; the cores in the geological column from different places will have differing layers of rock.
I disagree. Depends on how the "same stack" is defined. The geologic column is defined as underlying every point on the Earth. In this analogy, the stack would be defined as every pile of coins in the room.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1003 by jar, posted 08-04-2019 8:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1035 by jar, posted 08-05-2019 10:50 AM JonF has not replied
 Message 1094 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-06-2019 2:11 AM JonF has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1028 of 2370 (860034)
08-05-2019 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1026 by JonF
08-05-2019 10:28 AM


Re: Basics Faith, basics.
That definition of the Geological Column is, in my opinion, invented for the purpose of getting around the obvious fact that it's over and done with and that supports the Flood. You have to incorporate all kinds of phenomena that are so utterly different from the Geological Column as we know it and as it is presented all over the internet and on Google image, that even you all should have to see the ...I'm trying to avoid an insulting word but no good alternative is coming to me. Duplicity, self-deception, etc.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1026 by JonF, posted 08-05-2019 10:28 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1032 by JonF, posted 08-05-2019 10:40 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 1042 by RAZD, posted 08-05-2019 11:37 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 1045 by Percy, posted 08-05-2019 11:45 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1029 of 2370 (860035)
08-05-2019 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1005 by Faith
08-04-2019 9:41 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Ah well I HAVE explained it. Over and over. Really I have. Sigh.
Repeating your claims is not explaining. Explaianing would be saying why you think thata, and presenting reeal-world evidence and reasoning.
You can't do that.
If the whole world including the sea floor is the geological column how is it that the strata we find on the continents, from Precambrian to Holocene, are not also found on the sea floor? Hm?
How do you know they are not? But that's irrelevant.
The column is not defined by its contents, it's defined by its location. Under every point on Earth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1005 by Faith, posted 08-04-2019 9:41 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1030 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:36 AM JonF has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1030 of 2370 (860036)
08-05-2019 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1029 by JonF
08-05-2019 10:34 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Right, that's certainly a handy definition.
And yes, there's no point in my repeating my definition of the geo column.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1029 by JonF, posted 08-05-2019 10:34 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1033 by JonF, posted 08-05-2019 10:42 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1031 of 2370 (860038)
08-05-2019 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1025 by Faith
08-05-2019 10:26 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
in most cases I would just repeat it
In all cases you just repeat it.
After you've got all your objections said of course.
Obviously you don't want to communicate, your goal is obfuscation. The geological column is not defined ass you claim, period, end of story, 30, that's all folks.
If you insist on your definition, please never say anything bout the geologic column in the future. That's just impeding communication.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1025 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:26 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1032 of 2370 (860039)
08-05-2019 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1028 by Faith
08-05-2019 10:33 AM


Re: Basics Faith, basics.
That definition of the Geological Column is, in my opinion, invented for the purpose of getting around the obvious fact that it's over and done with
That's one of your claims. Repeating your claims is not evidence for your claims.
You have to incorporate all kinds of phenomena that are so utterly different from the Geological Column as we know it and as it is presented all over the internet and on Google image, that even you all should have to see the
That's one of your claims. Repeating your claims is not evidence for your claims.
. Duplicity, self-deception, etc.
Gratuitous insult noted. That isn't evidence for your cliams either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1028 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:33 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1033 of 2370 (860041)
08-05-2019 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1030 by Faith
08-05-2019 10:36 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Right, that's certainly a handy definition.
And true, and in agreement with every definition I could find.
And yes, there's no point in my repeating my definition of the geo column.
No point unless you can produce some evidence your definition is valid. Quote someone who agrees with you. Find a definition from some reasonable authority that agrees with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1030 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:36 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 1034 of 2370 (860043)
08-05-2019 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1002 by Faith
08-04-2019 7:38 PM


Re: Basics Faith, basics.
Faith writes:
If you have a stack of thirty silver dollars and you put a dime on top of it -- or even three or four dimes -- are you continuing the same stack of coins?
You mean like this?
And if you have a stack of thirty silver dollars on the table and you put a stack of three silver dollars on the floor are you continuing the same stack of coins?
Of course not. They are two local stacks, one on the table and one on the floor. If you added another stack of coins somewhere else on the table or floor then that is a third local stack. And a stack of coins would follow Steno's law of superposition assuming we didn't play God. There's no such thing as a global numismatic time scale, so beyond that your analogy breaks down.
But there is a global geologic time scale, and sediments deposited on the sea floor and that remain there, and simultaneously deposited sediments on the sea floor that are later uplifted onto continents, and simultaneously deposited sediments in a basin on an existing continent, are all the same time period of the global geologic timescale, the conceptual global geologic column.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1002 by Faith, posted 08-04-2019 7:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1036 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 10:53 AM Percy has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1035 of 2370 (860044)
08-05-2019 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1027 by JonF
08-05-2019 10:31 AM


Re: Basics Faith, basics.
Again, trying to take Baby Steps for Faith. See Message 1022.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1027 by JonF, posted 08-05-2019 10:31 AM JonF has not replied

  
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