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Author Topic:   The 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Campaign
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 505 (854342)
06-07-2019 11:42 AM


The candidates
Joe Biden: Creepy, Uncle Joe who loves to inappropriately touch women and little kids... the human gaffe machine that has an uncanny knack for saying the wrong thing at the wrong time. His age is certainly a question mark, but he does have a ton of political experience. He knows how Washington works... I'll let you decide if that's a liability or an asset. He'll have a deep electoral base though.
Tulsi Gabbard: I don't think she'll have the push to be a serious contender, but she is 1 of 2 Democrats that I would ever remotely consider electing. I like her military background and she's very eloquent. Ultimately I think she's a high rising meteor that will fizzle out. The crooked DNC will make sure she's a hit job if she comes anywhere close to the reigns of power.
Kamala Harris: She tries too hard to rebrand herself as a true liberal while having been a hard-nosed prosecutor in California. She is eloquent and has a veneer of presidential qualities, but to some Democrats she's way too conservative and to Republicans she's way too liberal (especially on guns). She's in a political no-man's land. But then again, Trump got elected so.... stranger things have happened.
Beto O'Rourke: Mr. Platitude; oh, but he's so Obama-esque! This guy has nothing substantive to say. When you get through all his double-speak the guy doesn't have a single definable plan for any of his pie-in-the-sky platitudes. He just knows what sounds liberal to liberals...
Bernie Sanders: He's got a lot of experience... and while I vehemently disagree with just about everything that comes out of his mouth, I sense that he is genuine whereas most politicians are, well, typical narcissistic politicians who will do anything and say anything if it ascends them to a role of power. His age is a factor, but he's got a very deep base. He's one of the only real contenders in the race.
Elizabeth Warren: Fake. Fake. Fake. She's cut from the same cloth as Hilary Clinton - a fake as fuck blowhard who is the antithesis of Sanders. There is nothing genuine about her, except her genuine desire for power. I have ZERO respect for her. She's a moron and a died-in-the-wool politician. But she will have a big backing from the behemoth that is the DNC. I would like to think that real liberals can see through the smokescreen just like they finally did when they saw the Clinton/DNC derail Bernie.
Andrew Yang: Probably the only Democratic candidate to get praise from FOX viewers... why? Because he has an actual plan that actually is measurable and based on rational inferences. He's the exact opposite of Beto (Mr. Platitudes). But his problem at this point in time is that he's really only known for his universal income schtick. He's a one-trick pony at this point. If he wants to be a serious contender, he is going to have to expand on his ideas. If he can follow suit he has the potential to bring a lot of Republicans over.
Corey Booker, de Blasio, Julian Castro, Buttigieg have some qualities that are appealing and some not so appealing.... they'll all likely fade away.
Howard Schultz, running as an Independent, has a lot of good ideas... he's a candidate who is liberal, but not too liberal, with some conservative ideas, but not too conservative... But he has no real big push or star power.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 505 (854399)
06-08-2019 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Taq
06-07-2019 4:42 PM


Re: The candidates
I am really curious what led you to this opinions. I am not trying to debate any points here, just curious about how other people perceive her.
I can only speak for myself, but she strikes me as a total elitist who bemoans the injustices of the poor while being so wildly removed from it. Pelosi, Clinton and Warren come to mind as being disingenuous and hyper-partisan.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 505 (855302)
06-18-2019 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Tanypteryx
06-08-2019 3:30 PM


Re: The candidates
And they're all women
Did you miss the part where I was critical of men on the list or that I lauded Tulsi Gabbard as being 1 of 2 considerations for my vote?
And they are each expert-level knowledgeable in their field, Congress and the law and effective leadership, world affairs, and banking and finance. You may not like their personalities or histories, but I don't think you can credibly deny their qualifications.
You cited Mitch McConnell in the previous paragraph... does his "expert-level knowledge" give him any credibility? No, I didn't think so... I mean, to say that a politician is knowledgeable of politics is about as redundant as a plumber being knowledgeable about plumbing.
Can you name any Republicans that are not hyper-partisan considering Trump's 90+% approval from Republicans?
Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Arlen Specter, John McCain, Joe Lierberman, etc come to mind as people willing to reach across the aisle. But of course, more could be said of the question itself. Because of this hyper-partisan political climate we live in, as soon as I was critical of people from the Democratic Party you rushed in to counter with Republicans. I'm not a Republican and I'm very critical of Donald Trump who, by the way, was a lifelong Democrat up until about 10-5 years ago.... I guess that means he's willing to reach across the aisle too!

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-08-2019 3:30 PM Tanypteryx has replied

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 505 (859397)
07-31-2019 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by LamarkNewAge
07-31-2019 12:14 AM


Re: David Axelrod is a liar ( telling disgusting lies about decriminalization)
Apparently, Axelrod just said that Democrats have to drop "the decriminalization card" because "Democrats need to face the fact that even many Democrats simply don't agree with decriminalization".
I still don't know what it is that they actually want and at this point I don't think they know what they want. They say the border patrol is akin to the gestapo but many say it's "bullshit" that democrats want open borders and to stop using that argument. So what exactly is it that you do want? Because as it stands, CPB is enforcing laws that Congress passed. And then Congress are the one's who bitch about it as if CPB has any control over what laws are passed. I mean... seriously?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-31-2019 12:14 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 505 (859485)
07-31-2019 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Tanypteryx
07-31-2019 2:38 PM


Re: David Axelrod is a liar ( telling disgusting lies about decriminalization)
So, Congress passed a law that says the border patrol has to lock people up in cells with standing room only, no sanitation or medical care? Congress passed a law that says children of all ages should be locked up in cages with no sanitation or adult care?
I think 90% of that controversy is embellished, but I don't want to get lost in the weeds in the minutia. I'm curious to know what precisely most Democrats want when it comes to the border. Everything I've seen seems to indicate an open border. Whenever that's mentioned, they say, no but offer no real provisions. So what is it that Democrats want when it comes to immigration policy?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-31-2019 2:38 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 505 (859504)
07-31-2019 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Theodoric
07-31-2019 10:06 PM


Re: Who is calling for open borders?
Please show one prominent Democrat that has advocated for an open border.
Answer the question I posed already and I'll answer yours. If you don't want open borders then what do you want?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Theodoric, posted 07-31-2019 10:06 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Theodoric, posted 07-31-2019 11:10 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 505 (859515)
07-31-2019 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Theodoric
07-31-2019 11:10 PM


Re: Who is calling for open borders?
quote:
Elizabeth Warren has an immigration plan. Here are the highlights:
*Decriminalizes unauthorized immigration and returns to the civil enforcement we had before George Bush began Operation Streamline.
*Eliminates abusive immigration enforcement and keeps law enforcement at arms length from CBP and ICE.
*Reduces and reforms immigrant detention.
*Reforms immigration courts.
*Raises the refugee cap to 125,000 and affirms refugee protections.
*Reforms legal immigration and creates a path to citizenship.
This is a curious plan. As near as I can tell, it recommends no actions to improve border law enforcement in any way. There’s nothing about either a wall or a virtual wall. There’s nothing about E-Verify. There’s nothing about smarter or more efficient enforcement. No one will ever be deportedexcept, presumably, for serious felons, though Warren doesn’t even say that explicitly. Expedited removal will be ended. The Border Patrol will be reshaped from top to bottom, and will focus their efforts on homeland security efforts like screening cargo, identifying counterfeit goods, and preventing smuggling and trafficking. The whole thing is very similar to Julian Castro’s plan.
I have previously criticized Republicans who accused liberals of wanting open borders. President Trump tweets about this endlessly. But I have to admit that it’s hard to see much daylight between Warren’s plan and de facto open borders.
Source from a liberal rag so you can't conveniently dismiss it
Now answer the question that I asked first... If you or other Democrats don't want open borders, then what do you want when it comes to immigration?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 173 of 505 (860161)
08-05-2019 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Percy
08-01-2019 2:33 PM


Re: Who is calling for open borders?
But it's Kevin Drum's (writing for Mother Jones) way of summarizing Elizabeth Warren's plan. It's not the Democrats' plan. The Democratic candidates have a number of different positions on immigration, so it doesn't really make sense to ask for the Democrats' immigration plan.
His point is that whenever we hear a Democrat explain the situation on the border, its unequivocally met with a bunch of platitudes. And Warren's proposal, for what its worth, does sound like a de facto open border. All of the criticism is on CPB and every illegal alien is treated within the plan to have some pathway to citizenship. But nowhere in that, or any plan that I've ever seen proposed, does it clearly diagram how it ought to operate on a day-to-day basis.
he also says, "No one will ever be deportedexcept, presumably, for serious felons, though Warren doesn’t even say that explicitly." It's true that Drum's summary of Warren's plan doesn't mention deportation, but why do I have a feeling that Warren does have something to say about deportation?
Then why do multiple left-leaning outlets report the same thing?
Source
And just to be very clear: no Democrat running for president is in favor of open borders.
Yeah, no candidate is stupid enough to say that outright... as I'm sure even they are aware of the issues concerning human trafficking, drug smuggling, indentured servitude, etc that occurs simultaneously with benign families crossing. But as Drum's article points out, as well as others, making any attempt to see anything less than a de facto open border nearly impossible.
I am not endorsing any particular immigration plan, I'm not even very familiar with any of them (including Bill Weld's, the other Republican candidate for president) but I am definitely opposed to Trumpian border cruelty and to breaking our DACA promise.
Immigration is of vital and critical importance to the stability of the US; even on the Southern Border. We need immigrants, so long as it is done the right way. I'm all for easing restrictions, but not bypassing a port of entry. This is certainly a challenging issue and I don't envy anyone in the position of correcting past mistakes without sacrificing things that do work. The problem is that I rarely see politicians, on both sides of the aisle, making a concerted effort to actually address the issues at hand beyond making platitudes and empty promises.
On Trump's side its "Build a Wall and Mexico is gonna pay for it." Yeah, okay.... Just another empty and unfulfilled promise, even though that was categorized as one of his top priorities as first day on the job... meanwhile, four years later....
On the other side of aisle, I see a lot of platitudes that refer only to the positive aspects of illegal immigration and a scathing critique of CPB. Not much else. Beto is probably the worst when it comes to this. The guy doesn't have an actual plan for anything... he just knows what voters like to hear.
I, for one, would like to see a comprehensive plan that gets into the finer details. I'm sick of bullet-point talking points. Give us some substance.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Percy, posted 08-01-2019 2:33 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 175 of 505 (860173)
08-05-2019 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Theodoric
08-05-2019 8:20 PM


Re: Who is calling for open borders?
So no one is advocating for open borders.
If you read the post, they are without outright saying it... just as you've been saying Trump is a racist without outright acknowledging it.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 176 of 505 (860174)
08-05-2019 9:43 PM


Political Assassination
The media in the United States is beyond corruption at this point. There is no such thing as objectively reporting the news any longer, its about manufacturing the news... Guiding it, steering the course of destiny, by hook or crook. Its so obviously a hit job against Tulsi because she's now viewed as a legitimate threat after she scalped Harris in the 2nd debate. Establishment Democrats view her as a potential regime change against the status quo.
If Tulsi's talking points were made against Trump, they'd all give her a standing ovation. But because its against their establishment candidates, Kamala and Biden, they have to rush in with a smear campaign in this political assassination attempt. He may be loathsome to you, but when Trump talks about "Fake News," its hard to argue against it. Pure propaganda.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 338 of 505 (871559)
02-05-2020 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by Chiroptera
02-04-2020 12:15 PM


What I worry about is left leaning Democrats second guessing themselves and worrying about who other people think is electable and so choosing an uninspiring candidate who ends up being the least electable.
This is why I think straw polls are so dangerous. It forces many voters into picking a candidate that they don't actually believe in but think can be the lesser of evils. Vote your conscience.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 374 of 505 (871918)
02-16-2020 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by anglagard
02-14-2020 9:54 PM


Re: One Definition
I am actually to the left of Sanders, as I believe Facebook, Google, PG&E, etc. should be bought out and all stock holding shares given to the workers of those companies. As for any compensation for any former major stockholders, I think that should be done after the money stolen from the workers in the form of sweatshop conditions or due to underpaying workers and letting the taxpayers pick up the tab in EBT and Medicaid is refunded.
If you take the average salary aggregate of employees working for companies like Google and Facebook, Google averages at $115,000 annually and Facebook averages at $119,980. Source. Not exactly slumming it.... They also have massive perks, like stock options that you mentioned which pay handsome dividends or sell for thousands of dollars per share. Everything is designed around the comfort and happiness of the employee. "Sweatshop conditions?" I actually couldn't think of two companies that are more the antithesis of what a sweatshop actually is. Google and Facebook might actually be the absolute worst example I could think of to describe sweatshop conditions.
The market right now is so competitive for engineers at the present time that tech companies are ever-increasing the salaries and bonuses for their employees so that they can retain them and not lose them to competitors.
This isn't a defense of Google or Facebook who treat their employees far better than they do their customers and have created an industry on selling your data at our own expense, but the companies you selected were not demonstrative of companies that routinely mistreat or pay shit wages to. Had you said Walmart that would have actually made more sense.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 380 of 505 (871988)
02-17-2020 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 378 by Percy
02-17-2020 10:22 AM


Re: One Definition
In their place came stock grants. You're effectively given the shares, they usually vest over 4-5 years, and the purchase price is $0. Because of the low purchase price the number of shares involved in stock grants is typically lower than with stock options, probably around 20% as many shares.
Yeah, this is a big incentive with companies like Apple, FB, and Alphabet... its all about employee retention in tech these days because it is so competitive.
It's also not the kind of workspace I want when I'm churning out 10,000 lines of code per month (all coders know I'm lying - 10,000 lines of code a month is extremely difficult unless it's boilerplate). Nor when I'm writing a proposal or a technical paper or a design plan or an implementation plan. When I'm doing that stuff I want a nice private, quiet space away from interruptions. It is very common to hear people at hi-tech companies say that they get their best work done at home. An open collaborative workspace sounds appealing at first, but for many people collaboration is only a small part of what they do.
My wife is of the same mindset... She writes code from home. Although she is paid slightly less than the industry standard, she finds a lot of value in working from home. Aside from avoiding a killer commute to the office (which conservatively averages about 45 min each way, and not because its far away), it also removes a lot of wear and tear on a vehicle, cuts down on fuel consumption, she doesn't have to deal with constant noise or constant interruptions (except our dogs who can be bit a needy and time-consuming). We have a nice, quiet work office right at home.
One of my criticisms of companies like Google, Oracle, Apple, FB, and other big tech companies is that while they have created these elegant workspaces, its for a specific reason. The food is always top of the line and totally free to the employee. This is all designed around productivity. While these companies pay well and have a lot of perks, they want to squeeze every last drop out of their employees. They want an environment where you don't come in from 9-5, but one where you are okay with coming in from 11am to 9pm. You leave when the job is done.... and when is the job ever really done in that industry? They want to make it comfortable enough to where you're okay with not leaving and continue to work beyond a standard 8-hour workday.
Smaller tech companies are able to have most of their employees working from home and have very good ways of monitoring their productivity levels. If you're supposed to be at your computer writing code when you're actually watching Jerry Springer and eating ho-ho's on your couch, it won't be long before they are aware.
All of these companies have this ability and should encourage people to work from home, I think. You can even work collaboratively from home just as easily as in a board room. It helps decongest traffic, makes employees happier and more productive. And commutes really take a toll on mental health day after day. People are coming in to work tired and leaving exhausted.
Most jobs require people to physically be present... but more and more jobs can, and I think should, be offered remotely. It just makes sense.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 385 of 505 (871994)
02-17-2020 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by jar
02-17-2020 11:58 AM


Re: One Definition
There are so many advantages to making it more ubiquitous to count, but some of the big ones are job satisfaction, more alert employees, less traffic for those not fortunate enough to work remotely, less traffic accidents, less CO2 emissions from less cars on the road, etc, etc.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 386 of 505 (871995)
02-17-2020 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 384 by RAZD
02-17-2020 3:06 PM


Re: How "Socialism" is Viewed
You really have a bee under your bonnet, imho. You keep going down the road the GOP wants you to take (that's why they always raise Venezuela as if that is the only example).
Well, and Cuba, and North Korea, and Bolivia, and Ecuador, and Nicaragua, and Peru, etc...
Nope. He keeps pointing out the Nordic Countries that have a balance of socialism and capitalism in a democratic government system. Also see FDR, specifically his Second Bill of Rights - Wikipedia -- which is very similar to Bernie's platforms/issues.
Its funny, when you ask the Nordic countries why they switched to a Socialist model some said it was because of how they saw the United States using the Veterans Affairs as a template. Now most Americans distance themselves from terms like Socialism.
But in any event, people forget that China is still a communist nation, albeit they changed how they do business. They knew they could never compete in a true Marxist/Leninist/Maoist style of communism in terms of production and GDP compared to capitalist societies. So they, quite cleverly actually, said if you can't beat them, join them.... sort of.
The architect of the Command Economy, which also is a hybrid of communism and capitalism, allowed for a semi-autonomous free market that is more or less still under the thumb of the PRC. The only problem is that they still hold very draconian views on personal rights and zero tolerance for dissent against the government. It didn't end with Tank Man. China still has a rich and storied tradition of making figures oppositional to the government to magically and mysteriously vanish... even under one of the largest surveillance states ever erected.
Mostly people raised in the cold war era, where the right wing propaganda painted everything left of center as evil socialism. Congratulations, they convinced you, it seems.
I think Percy is right to point out that the term might as well be toxic waste in the present era. Timing is everything. In the 90's, there was a gay rights push that was suppressed. People like Hilary Clinton, knowing the pulse on the street, distanced herself from it because she didn't think Americans were ready to accept it. And she was right.
The same applies. Maybe socialism is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but good luck convincing the bulk of Americans that when they have so many real-world examples of why it should never take root.
If you go to the extreme that Bernie is, the chance of beating Trump diminishes. Death by a thousand cuts, while taking much longer, is preferable than a decapitation. People are more comfortable with the devil they already know.
Now is not the time to go full bore Socialist. It has too many negative connotations associated with it. Timing is everything. If your goal is to beat Trump in the next election, its gonna be hard to argue against the numbers he's putting up under an extremely capitalist structure. Jobs are up, unemployment is down, fuel prices are the lowest they've been in a long time, the economy is booming, etc.
If the goal is beat Trump then you're going to have to find someone that can deliver similar expectations while still able to make improvements. You're going to need someone more moderate than Bernie's views to do it, more than likely.
I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just saying there is compelling evidence to assume it true and accurate.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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