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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1126 of 2370 (860301)
08-06-2019 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1124 by Faith
08-06-2019 4:29 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
quote:
Why don't you stop being so blind and realize that I have given plenty of evidence?
You’ve made a lot of claims - many of them utterly ridiculous, but when it comes to producing real evidence you haven’t exactly come up with a lot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1124 by Faith, posted 08-06-2019 4:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1127 of 2370 (860302)
08-06-2019 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1123 by Percy
08-06-2019 4:21 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
300 million-ish.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1123 by Percy, posted 08-06-2019 4:21 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1128 of 2370 (860304)
08-06-2019 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1124 by Faith
08-06-2019 4:29 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Why don't you stop being so blind and realize that I have given plenty of evidence?
You have no clue what evidence is. Such as your insistence that the definition of "the" geologic column shared by everyone but you is wrong. For example:
"My definition is the only rational one" includes no evidence.
"My definition is correct because the esteemed sedimentologist Professor Milo Minderbinder agrees with me" is better but weak because you may have misinterpreted him.
"My definition is correct because the esteemed sedimentologist Professor Milo Minderbinder wrote, in Principles of Sedimentology second edition, 'the geologic column consists only of sedimentary layers above the basement rocks on land." contains significant evidence.
Of course this was a waste of time. You are incapable of understanding the concept.

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 Message 1124 by Faith, posted 08-06-2019 4:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 1129 of 2370 (860305)
08-06-2019 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1078 by Faith
08-05-2019 5:39 PM


Re: Patchwork Quilt Geological Column/s
Faith writes:
THE Flood DID produce layers and DID sort thngs as we see them.
This is just a baseless assertion. You will next claim that you've already presented the evidence, but you haven't. You've said ridiculous things like that the Gulf of Mexico is not a sea, but you haven't said anything true or even relevant.
"Floods" are something else entirely.
So the Flood would do things that floods would not. And you know this how?
Where did I say all life would be destroyed before any layers were laid down? I can't have said that, I don't think it's true.
You said, "The whole surface of the land would be so defaced just from the forty days and nights of rain it would be unrecognizable and then the strata piled on top of it would further erase any recognizable remains." How long were you imagining that life was treading water during the 40 days and 40 nights of rain, after which the deposition of strata began (that's what your words that I just quoted say)?
Where is your evidence that anything like this ever happened? Surely there should be defaced surfaces somewhere that have been exposed or that our core drilling has reached.
Is WHAT "what we see?" I don't know what you mean.
JonF is asking if what we observe in the geological strata looks like the result of a flood, referring indirectly to, for example, the way the different types of strata are ordered with sandstone overlain by shale overlain by limestone overlain by more sandstone then more limestone and so forth. Or for another example, the way the fossils are sorted into strata, and also sorted by increasing difference from modern forms with increasing depth. Or for another example, why are land fossils never found in limestone strata? If the Flood really happened then you should have evidence and explanations for these things that make sense, more sense than almost deranged declarations like "The Gulf of Mexico is not a sea" (whose discussion please take to the The Gulf of Mexico is Not a Sea thread).
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1078 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 5:39 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1131 by JonF, posted 08-06-2019 5:00 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1130 of 2370 (860306)
08-06-2019 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1079 by Faith
08-05-2019 5:41 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Faith writes:
The Gulf was formed after the strata were deposited. It is not sea floor.
Please take discussion about the Gulf of Mexico to the The Gulf of Mexico is Not a Sea thread.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1079 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 5:41 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1131 of 2370 (860308)
08-06-2019 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1129 by Percy
08-06-2019 4:48 PM


Re: Patchwork Quilt Geological Column/s
I was specifically asking if the fossil record looks as if essentially all life was killed in the 40 days of rain and the first layer covered them up.
But obviously the fludde picked up all those remains and stored them away somewhere in individual bins for later distribution.

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1132 of 2370 (860314)
08-06-2019 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1086 by Faith
08-05-2019 11:52 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Faith writes:
I'm trying to explain how the strata that had to have started out horizontal, stacked vertically from Cambrian to Holocene, got turned on their side so that they are now soread along the island from left to right and the other part of their strata lie beneath the island in the same arrangement. If you have a better explanation for how that happened, lay it out.
I gave you the explanation hundreds of messages ago in Message 696, here's the explanation again:
If you take these sedimentary layers A (on the bottom) through H (at the top):
H ----------------------------------------------
G ----------------------------------------------
F ----------------------------------------------
E ----------------------------------------------
D ----------------------------------------------
C ----------------------------------------------
B ----------------------------------------------
A ----------------------------------------------
And then you tilt them upward on the left and erode the tops off like this:
A  B  C  D  E	F  G  H
  \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
   \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
    \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
     \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
      \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
       \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
Then the formerly vertical ordering will, at the surface, appear to be left to right. That's all you're seeing is tilt followed by erosion.
But let's get back to your conception of how the UK cross section happened and see if we can complete the diagrams so that it can be easily visualized. You said that you believed that the uplift at Snowdon would a) crack the rocks; b) uplift the entire stack from Snowdon to Harwish; c) cause the horizontal strata to go away; and d) cause the strata to fall away. I know what a would look like, but I don't understand b and c, so I need you to provide more detail about them. I also still don't understand d, but let's address b and c first.
It will help if you remember the exaggeration of the vertical scale in the UK diagram. This is a more realistic representation of the height of Snowdon relative to the distance to Harwich:


Snowdon                                                                  Harwich
I just need to understand how that tiny bit of elevation at Snowdon could cause all the effects you've described.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1086 by Faith, posted 08-05-2019 11:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1134 by Faith, posted 08-07-2019 12:05 AM Percy has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 1133 of 2370 (860331)
08-06-2019 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1097 by JonF
08-06-2019 9:21 AM


Re: A geological column vs THE geological column
This topic is plastered with thoughts about "the" geologic(al) column that I don't like.
If a geologist refers to "the" geologic column, he is either referring to "a" specific individual geologic column at a specific location OR he is referring to the geologic time scale, which is independent of any specific location of the Earth. Which one would be apparent from the discussion context.
I strongly encourage the going to the Geologic Column topic started by NosyNed back in 2003 (16+ years ago!). Edge did a nice message 3 there.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1134 of 2370 (860344)
08-07-2019 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1132 by Percy
08-06-2019 5:16 PM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
You call this an explanation:
H ----------------------------------------------
G ----------------------------------------------
F ----------------------------------------------
E ----------------------------------------------
D ----------------------------------------------
C ----------------------------------------------
B ----------------------------------------------
A ----------------------------------------------
And then you tilt them upward on the left and erode the tops off like this:

 A  B  C  D  E	F  G  H
  \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
   \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
    \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
     \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
      \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
       \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
But it's no explanation at all. It's what needs to BE explained. For all those hundreds of posts I've been trying to explain how we get from the horizontal layers to the tilted layers. That's what YOU haven't explained, and I have a feeling you don't have an explanation.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1132 by Percy, posted 08-06-2019 5:16 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1135 by PaulK, posted 08-07-2019 12:13 AM Faith has replied
 Message 1184 by Percy, posted 08-08-2019 12:13 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1135 of 2370 (860345)
08-07-2019 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1134 by Faith
08-07-2019 12:05 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
quote:
But it's no explanation at all. It's what needs to BE explained. For all those hundreds of posts I've been trying to explain how we get from the horizontal layers to the tilted layers.
That is a very odd thing to say. You are asking for an explanation of the mechanism. But you haven’t even tried to offer one, instead all you are doing is adding extra complexities which don’t seem to make sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1134 by Faith, posted 08-07-2019 12:05 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1136 by Faith, posted 08-07-2019 12:15 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1136 of 2370 (860346)
08-07-2019 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1135 by PaulK
08-07-2019 12:13 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
I explained how the rock rising up into the strata would break them in two and cause the two parts to fall to the right and left which would tilt them. I'm not surprised it doesn't make sense to you since very little does.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1135 by PaulK, posted 08-07-2019 12:13 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1137 by PaulK, posted 08-07-2019 12:18 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 1188 by Percy, posted 08-08-2019 12:50 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1137 of 2370 (860347)
08-07-2019 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1136 by Faith
08-07-2019 12:15 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
quote:
I explained how the rock rising up into the strata would break them in two and cause the two parts to fall to the right and left which would tilt them.
The rise is all you need to cause the tilt, and you haven’t explained how that happened at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1136 by Faith, posted 08-07-2019 12:15 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 1138 of 2370 (860351)
08-07-2019 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1088 by Faith
08-06-2019 12:17 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Faith writes:
Jurassic through Holocene are not marine.
PaulK already responded to this, but it deserves further comment. The Jurassic, the Holocene and all those in between are time periods, not strata (well the Holocene is an epoch, but why bring up picayune facts in the face of such immense error). There isn't a single time period in this history of the planet that did not have marine environments.
Your messages seem to reflect a declining knowledge of geology over time.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1088 by Faith, posted 08-06-2019 12:17 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1139 of 2370 (860352)
08-07-2019 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1090 by Faith
08-06-2019 12:52 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Faith writes:
Doesn't matter to me, you know, since they were all the result of the Flood.
Understanding basic concepts of geology such as that time periods are not strata should prove crucial to showing the Flood really happened, so it should matter to you. Correct use of terminology will make your ideas much more clear. I encourage you to care much more about getting things right.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1090 by Faith, posted 08-06-2019 12:52 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1143 by Faith, posted 08-07-2019 8:21 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1140 of 2370 (860353)
08-07-2019 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1092 by Faith
08-06-2019 1:04 AM


Re: Geological Column/ Time Scale is Over and Done With
Faith writes:
Point is that whether or not those strata are marine does not affect my theory. It's not about being accurate or not, in this case, it just makes no difference.
Gross inaccuracy (and often pure nonsense) make your task of proving the Flood much more difficult, so it is something you should be trying hard to avoid. The degree of truth in what you say makes a great deal of difference when engaged in persuasion. If you were saying these things to people in normal conversation where people are generally much more reserved about confronting error you'd get blankly nodding heads thinking inside, "This person really doesn't know what she's talking about." That's not what you want. It's like you have the analog of a death wish for your ideas, sending factually vacuous notions out to the slaughter.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1092 by Faith, posted 08-06-2019 1:04 AM Faith has not replied

  
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