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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
SB writes: ... clearly by our standards someone today thinking that way is thinking irrationally, because we know the effect (lightning) is not due to the cause of a deity. Sure, once a concept is proven wrong - lightning, flat earth, whatever - if you continue to ague for it, you're irrational. But you need the evidence that it's wrong first. Here we're arguing something doesn't exist because there's no evidence; not that we have a proven alternative that rules the something out. Our argument is that atmospheric conditions make lightning not Zeus. Our argument isn't that we haven't found Zeus yet so he doesn't exist (even though the lighting does).Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
You're still confusing wrong with irrational. Like the idea of horoscopes or poltergeists or lucky rabbit's feet (not so lucky for the rabbit, was it?) the idea of god is simply irrational."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
Don't be stupid. I have participated more than you have. You're the one who refuses to answer a simple question. Ah, so you're just watching, not participating in the discussion. That explains a lot."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
Anybody who has read the thread can see that that isn't true. You're saying "Even if your arguments had any value" as if you'd explained why you disagreed with those arguments. Since you haven't . . ."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
That's what I've been asking you. Why do you refuse to answer? How does one decide if an idea itself is irrational? You have made the positive claim that the idea of God is irrational. It is up to you to back up that claim. So how do you decide if an idea itself is irrational?
Sarah Bellum writes:
Since I've been saying the same thing all along, maybe we can hope that you are finally making some progress. You're making progress."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
If they had rational reasons ... As part of the flat earth scenario people are given the postulate there is no curve to the horizon. This is false, of course, it’s just that they could not see or measure the subtle curve that was indeed there. That they believed this postulate true makes no difference. The conclusion the earth is flat, rationally derived, is false, was false, will always be false regardless of the state of their knowledge at the time. The god postulate is irrational and not only has no truth value it has no logic value. Just like the no curve postulate it doesn’t matter that they believed it was rational at the time. Given the irrational postulate god there can be no logical conclusion. As long as "god" is irrational god done it is irrational, was irrational, will always be irrational. That goat herders thought the no curve postulate was true because they took the shaman’s word for it does not alter the truth value of the logical conclusion. The conclusion was false. That they thought the god postulate was rational because they chose to believe the shaman from the village in the other valley does not alter the logic value of the argument. It has none. It is irrational no matter how logical the structure of the syllogism may appear. Any syllogism containing a logically derived wrong premise will ultimately lead to a wrong conclusion. Any syllogism containing an irrationally derived premise is irrational prima facie and cannot be further considered regardless of the strength of it construction. It is like hitting a divide by zero in a program. It blows up the whole construction without any regard for what follows and cannot achieve any result right or wrong. The syllogism itself is irrational. There can be no logic value to it no matter how logically structured it may appear. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
Northwest Passage. There was no link until there was. The idea was never irrational. It was never irrational to think that a link would/might be found. It was never correct to say, "I know the Northwest Passage doesn't exist."
If there's no link - then it's irrational to suggest that the search is going to turn up something that will overturn the current conclusion of "I know that God does not exist." Stile writes:
No. The lack of a link is never a given. Can you agree that, given no link to reality, the reasoning for the search for God has no bearing on the reasoning of whether or not God actually exists?"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 622 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
You can't seriously be claiming that horoscopes are rational?
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
Nobody on this forum is more vehemently opposed to absolutes than I am. If you want to suggest that knowledge should be considered absolute - you can make your case."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
You just dismiss out of hand umpteen good philosophical arguments as being irrational. Their logic not withstanding since none of them can show any viable evidence of "god" they all are indeed irrational. And as such any argument they make that includes the irrationally derived "god" as a postulate is irrational. Yes, I’ve read Aquinas, Gdel, Descartes and others. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 622 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
But the monotheistic gods (you know, the ones who allegedly smite villages with fire and brimstone, inflict plagues on Egypt, bring manna from heaven) are no more plausible than the thunderbolt-throwing Zeus of classical mythology.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 622 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Sigh. Your "participation" has mostly been to claim that answers you've been provided haven't been provided.
Maybe you can win one of those medals for "participation"?
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 622 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Yes, people do read these threads. You should try it some time.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 622 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Indeed, you have been saying the same thing over and over. Why do you expect an answer different from the ones you've already been provided? Maybe I was wrong about you making progress...
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
I said, "You're still confusing wrong with irrational." You can't seriously be claiming that horoscopes are rational?Horoscopes are certainly wrong - i.e. not based on reality. But that does not make the idea irrational. That's a separate issue. If you want to claim that something is irrational, you have to show how it is irrational. You have to show the errors in reasoning. Showing that the conclusion is true doesn't cut it. Your math teacher requires you to show your work."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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