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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1524 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 1981 of 3207 (860439)
08-07-2019 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1977 by Stile
08-07-2019 3:48 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Our knowledge, however, of what does exist - is based on what we've rationally tested in reality.
Is this not tautologous?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1977 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 3:48 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1986 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 4:35 PM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1524 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 2000 of 3207 (860514)
08-08-2019 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1987 by Stile
08-07-2019 4:38 PM


Re: Don't Pee In My Ocean
Stile writes:
This, I agree with.
As long as we agree the context for "It is irrational..." aligns with "...according to our best understood method for 'knowing things.'"
The irrationality of the belief in God is still a ongoing debate though and atheist evidentialist will never concede the opposing view that it is not irrational. Get in line this debate has been going on for some time. As I said, you can say "You know God does not exist." And you can say "You know other universes do not exist." But do you really?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1987 by Stile, posted 08-07-2019 4:38 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2001 by Stile, posted 08-08-2019 11:17 AM 1.61803 has replied
 Message 2006 by AZPaul3, posted 08-08-2019 12:30 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1524 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 2009 of 3207 (860535)
08-08-2019 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 2001 by Stile
08-08-2019 11:17 AM


Re: Don't Pee In My Ocean
Stile writes:
Debating" something doesn't mean it's actually in contention.
Uh Yes is kinda does.
debate
/d’bt/
Learn to pronounce
verb
gerund or present participle: debating
argue about (a subject), especially in a formal manner.
"the board debated his proposal"
synonyms: discuss, confer about, talk over, talk through, talk about, exchange views on, exchange views about, thrash out, argue, argue about, argue the pros and cons of, dispute, wrangle over, bandy words concerning, contend over,contest, controvert, moot; informalkick around/about, bat around/about; archaicaltercate
"the board debated his proposal"
I can do this for all things we know to exist. 100% of them.
Can't do it for God.
That is because you are a evidentalist atheist who believes that the belief in God is irrational.
The number three is something that exist only in our minds. If I ask you to show me the number 3 you can show me three things etc.. and what the concept of 3 is.
But you can not show me 3. What if God is like that? Can you show me evidence of a idea? Ideas exist do they not. What if God is like that? There are concepts of multidimensional spaces that fundamental elements and forces could be manifesting our very reality in. They can not be comprehended by the human mind and yet they these dimentions may exist. Could God be like this? I do not know, but there is room in my universe for the possibility.
IMO, the scientific method is the best way to gain knowledge since it has no agenda, or mission. Science adjust as new facts and theories come to light. Yet some things are just guesses based on nothing more than "If this where true it would explain XYZ." Yet some folks are so dogmatic in their non-belief that God is irrational and hence meaningless to consider.
I know that the fictional myth of Santa Clause does not exist. And I know the fictional myth of God does not exist. But that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about something more than fiction. Those are bronze age beliefs trying to describe something that may defy description.
Yes it could be just a irrational delusion. You could be right Stile. But I do not know you are.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2001 by Stile, posted 08-08-2019 11:17 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2011 by Stile, posted 08-08-2019 12:50 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1524 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 2025 of 3207 (860570)
08-08-2019 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2011 by Stile
08-08-2019 12:50 PM


Re: Don't Pee In My Ocean
Stile writes:
I know that God does not exist.
And what about other universes? Do you know they do not exist?
Hmmm.
Do you believe we could be living in a holographic universe where the duality of waves and particles are reconciled by all of space and volume . We literally do not exist except as a reflection.
If I told you there could be such tech, that the Matrix idea could actually be carried out given enough computing power. Could you tell me that is not the case? How would you know? Could some super intelligent aliens be having a laugh?
If I told you that this reality you think you are living is like a DVD and every possible scenario that you think is happening has already been concluded which is why the wave function in the double slit experiment can collapses every time into the exact thing it does not based on a observer but because there are no alternative, no multiverse and no free will either. It is all a illusion. How do you know that is not correct.
If I told you that the fundamental forces that manifest this universe are planke's size strings vibrating in 11 dimensions fulminating everything that exist.
But mention a God and everybody gets ohhh that is to far fetched. lmao.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2011 by Stile, posted 08-08-2019 12:50 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2027 by Stile, posted 08-08-2019 4:00 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1524 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 2029 of 3207 (860576)
08-08-2019 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2027 by Stile
08-08-2019 4:00 PM


Re: Don't Pee In My Ocean
Well, we do have evidence that at least one universe can exist.
How much evidence do we have that at least one God can exist?
This is the difference.
Of all the things you have said this is the most convincing. Touche'
However scientist do not even know what 95 percent of the universe is.
Think about that. All that you think you know that there is evidence for and only 5 percent of what comprises our universe is known. That is a pretty big question mark Stile. I get what you are saying though, it does come down to whether or not belief is rational or not. And as long as there are scientist and philosophers that are on both sides there will be debate.
You can say you know that God does not exist. I will go along with Pascal.
I found this story to be interesting.
Once Zhuang Zhou dreamed he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn’t know he was Zhuang Zhou. Suddenly he woke up, and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuang Zhou. But he didn’t know if he were Zhuang Zhou who had dreamed he was a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuang Zhou.
BBC Earth | Home
Scientists Have Created The Largest Ever Virtual Universe Inside a Supercomputer : ScienceAlert
Edited by 1.61803, : few links

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2027 by Stile, posted 08-08-2019 4:00 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2030 by Stile, posted 08-08-2019 4:36 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1524 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 2032 of 3207 (860587)
08-08-2019 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 2031 by Tangle
08-08-2019 5:02 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
I don't need to find solace anywhere.
Not even from your new PM and Brexit?? Not even a nice cuppa can provide solice for that i bet.
Edited by 1.61803, : proved to provide

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2031 by Tangle, posted 08-08-2019 5:02 PM Tangle has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1524 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 2195 of 3207 (861950)
08-29-2019 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 2193 by AZPaul3
08-29-2019 4:07 PM


Re: How to devise a test for the existence of an invisible living thinking creature
Bells inequalities violates the speed of light speed limit and experimentally verified.
reality is not something that those who think they know wtf they are talking about is in the bag. 97 percent of what we know about our own universe is a question mark. Despite everything we think we know, we know shit.
So get in line about saying" I know god does not exist." You do not even know the most basic fundamental crux of what comprises our own universe or how reality is manifested on a quantum level. I do not know how many angels can dance on the head of pin but there is enough room in my universe to consider that something fantastical and "majick" could be beyond my human ability to comprehend it. Yes of course I agree the mythos part of god and gods is antiquated. God if it does exist will be the ultimate explanation.
Why dismiss it because we are only beginning to understand. I do not believe someone who says they know god exist no more than I believe someone who says they know it does not. I am biased and a cultural Catholic so of course my opinon is tainted. I just feel it is a bit presumptuous to claim complete knowlege of something that is in such contention because your bar for knowing is the lack of evidence that is subjective and can not be scientifically verified and yet something like Bells inequalities that is scientifically verified is ludicrous and yet accepted. (been at the pub today.)
Quantum Theory and Common Sense - Tim Maudlin » IAI TV
https://qudev.phys.ethz.ch/...tions/QSIT-BellsInequality.pdf

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2193 by AZPaul3, posted 08-29-2019 4:07 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2197 by AZPaul3, posted 08-29-2019 7:16 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1524 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 2199 of 3207 (861959)
08-29-2019 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2197 by AZPaul3
08-29-2019 7:16 PM


Re: How to devise a test for the existence of an invisible living thinking creature
You’re right either speed c is exceeded or something is wrong with our understanding in regards to Bells theory and hence our understanding of how our quantum world operates.your also right thatGod doesn’t exist scientifically but religiously. I can have both if I so choose. I meant bar but pub has a friendly ring to it imo
Edited by 1.61803, : Spelling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2197 by AZPaul3, posted 08-29-2019 7:16 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1524 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(2)
Message 2289 of 3207 (862752)
09-12-2019 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2281 by Stile
09-09-2019 9:12 AM


Re: When specifics are required
Stile writes:
Or change the definition of "God" to something that could be behind Dark Matter - with no rational reason to do so.
Thanks for proving my point, again.
I get the impression that Ringo and you are possibly talking about two completely different things.
God does not exist scientifically. In other words, in science something is said to exist if observations match predictions. In terms of God science has nothing to offer since there is no way to even begin to test something that by definition defies being scrutinized using the scientific method. Why because as you have pointed out God does not exist , (scientifically). It is a moot point.
God is a religious/philosophical concept and in that framework does exist.
And as Ringo has pointed out there can be no proofs for the existence or non existence of a thing, only evidence that can be either evaluated or not. And since there is no physical evidence to evaluate, scientist do not have anything to make predictions on let alone the ability to test them. So you are both right and both wrong. And round and around this apparent paradox we go.
Just my opinion.
Can science prove the existence of God? | by Ethan Siegel | Starts With A Bang! | Medium

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2281 by Stile, posted 09-09-2019 9:12 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2296 by Stile, posted 09-16-2019 11:55 AM 1.61803 has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1524 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(3)
Message 2309 of 3207 (863082)
09-19-2019 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2307 by AlexCaledin
09-19-2019 4:22 AM



"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2307 by AlexCaledin, posted 09-19-2019 4:22 AM AlexCaledin has not replied

  
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