I Know That God Does Not Exist

I can understand a rational reason. What I cannot understand is the difference between a rational and irrational location. Please clarify.

In this case yes. Its an analogy. Lets say the peanut butter jar represents a place in your brain. Lets say that youdetermine to a large degree what information, sensations, experiences and memories get filed in your conscious brain. The one labled God is empty. You concluded this. But in order to find God, I would have to bypass your (and Stiles) conclusion and look elsewhere myself. Reason being the compartment marked "God" is always going to be empty in your brain. By conclusion. Seeing as how the universe is not framed by your personal conclusions, one would have to bypass your brain full of empty and full containers and examine other brains and other spaces outside of brains. Such as peanut butter jars.(hint: God jars) One can look for Santa Claus in a Christmas jar, a North Pole jar, a chimney jar and so on. One would have a harder time with God since God by definition is never limited to a jar (a box) in the first place.

OK, lets switch it up.
Let's say we have two tables.
Table 1: Has a set of (invisible)keys on it.
Table 2: Does not have a set of keys on it, there is nothing on it.Given that you *know* there are two possible answers, namely keys or no keys and that only one table has keys, can you even label which table is one and which table is two?To invoke the appeal to popularity, lets say that out of 6 billion people, 4 billion claim to know that invisible keys exist and yet also claim that it is a matter of subjective knowing and not objective knowing. What do you do with that problem? Lets say that they know because they have used such a set of invisible keys before to unlock some of their problems.

Substitute the word "places" for "tables. If God by definition is omnipresent, he is in all places at the same time...or none of them...depending on His whim. One key to finding Him is to get to know Who and What you are looking for. This involves some sort of special circumstance. God is not a box, a set of keys, a monster, or anything other than perhaps a person.(Jesus Christ) So its a bit like Waldo. Is Waldo in China? In fact its even deeper. As ringo suggests, the dark matter has not yet been perused.

Yes, but not totally. Take your irrational example:

a place we have no evidence to suggest that that it even might exist (a dimension where magic such as Harry Potter uses is viable) The place does exist in the imagination of the author. Do we have any rational reason why there is no such thing(person,Deity, whatever) that is the author of the universe?

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I would suggest that in order to be rational in the first place, God must exist in your imagination at the very minimum. Perhaps some people have less of an imagination than others. Sara cant seem to even fill in ringos blanks. (so far)

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Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

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You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

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Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile

I could see the argument (from "ya'lls perspective) that anything without objective evidence is by definition irrational. From my perspective, God is rational because if the initial ways that I experienced His presence. Of course, critics could say that it was just my imagination.Belief in general is without objective evidence. To me this makes sense...if in fact people were meant to freely choose to accept or reject the impression.

And yet some people claim to detect it.(Him) Just because they lack objective evidence is no reason to dismiss their claims. If they were simply psychotic they would have no valid arguments. Granted many of us don't but some arguments are worthy of further investigation. Why is it you refuse to fill in ringos blanks? Are you so cocksure of your position that you refuse to entertain philosophical ones which lack objective evidence? As long as I'm on this forum I wont allow the likes of Stile, jaer, and/or you to frame the basis for any faith based claim. You can run, but you can't hide.

I am the one who claimed that you all thought similar, but ringo has not yet admitted that belief is irrational, has he? I admitted that *you* believed it to be so. Resting means reflecting. Any good artist pauses to reflect on what they have made. Just because God has an infinitely fast super computer of a brain (according to some definitions of Him) does not mean that He is not allowed to reflect. He mirrors the perfection that He desires w obtain. Have any of us created something that is good? Which then further leads into the philosophical problem of evil, addressed in my other topic at the Open Theism thread.

How would one go about obtaining evidence that would satisfy you?

So if you prayed to God, you would be willing to lay down your accusations against Her long enough to allow God to inform you of His(Her) presence? You must be willing to set aside any preconceived anger or irritation you would have should such a Deity prove real. You can always quibble with Him later.1) Assume for the sheer sake of argument and pursuit of evidence that God as I present Him hypothetically could exist. If you cant go that far, you wont get evidence the way that you jokingly(semi seriously) demand it.
2) Say the following prayer---to yourself and to any hypothetical Deity Whom Might be listening:GOD, Yahweh, Fred, or whatever I should call you: I first off admit that I feel silly and superfluous uttering this prayer but am doing so solely because my internet acquaintance says it will work. I am not so convinced, but I will for this moment open my mind,heart and soul to anything you seek to confirm or show me. I lay down my right to be critical of you personally, though I reserve the right to continue being an atheist cultural critic. Hey, I am giving you (You) my permission to inform me of your existence. At this point, honestly, I can and will do no more. For this prayer...this moment...I open my defenses. Have at me.3) Say no more. Give this prayer a week. You need only sincerely say it once.4) Tell me any conclusions not preconceived or expected after this week. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

If God exists in our heart and is found by those who seek Him with all of their hearts, it would only make sense that He would never be found by someone merely looking for objective evidence on an electric meter or an instrument designed to detect energy. Moreover, if the ones who search have already personally concluded that they don't need God...that they don't need to commune with this alleged character....except on equal terms and the way *they* imagine God *should behave*...they wont find Him.

You have to want/need Him. You wont simply stumble upon Him as one stumbles upon an unknown rock in a field. Let me try another argument.(this one is for Stile also)Recently there have been many tragedies and many people killed in high profile tragedies around the world. This is ongoing, but the news media heightens the fear and anxiety and so we become aware of these all-too-real nightmares that other people experience. In times such as these, life often no longer makes sense. it becomes irrational. Trust itself becomes irrational. Many people turn to God. Whether God actually exists or whether God is a panacea in their mind, they equate belief in God with an unwaverable trust---out of desperation. They dont bother to examine whether or not God is good, or rational, or even proveable. They turn to prayers and they often find comfort.

quote:

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Deuteronomy 4:29
But if from there you will seek the LORD your God, you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul.

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Critics claim that God should rationally be able to be found by anyone and everyone should He exist. But consider in context:

quote:

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1 Chronicles 28:9
As for you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve Him wholeheartedly and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands the intention of every thought. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

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and

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Jeremiah 24:7
I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the LORD. They will be My people, and I will be their God, for they will return to Me with all their heart.

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If we are searching for this particular God found in these scriptures, it is evident that not just anyone can saunter into the holy of holies and have a conversation. The idea that everyone has an equal chance(opportunity) at finding God is not scriptural.

My point that I am attempting to get Stile to see is that God is not simply like any other thing that one looks for.Stile will protest and ask why we should think any differently about God than about anything else we look for.Note that he believes that he can find anything I can find without needing God to do so and that his mind can be as content as my mind except that his mind does not incorporate God while I believe that mine does. But how would we ever measure the difference?Getting back to victims of tragedies who seek God out of desperation and find an inner comfort:

We cannot prove that they actually find God. We can show that they do receive comfort.

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We don't often hear of people who seek God "with all their heart" and end up empty. You could claim that you found solace elsewhere...through a secular support group perhaps...but again, how could we measure what precisely it was that the group gave you? How do we know that "God" was not part of it?

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Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

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You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

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Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile

I see your point. I will argue that God by definition simply can't be "placed" anywhere. Not sure how to argue this...I simply feel it to be true. Perhaps we should attempt to define God as best as we can. Only if we can define Him can we "place Him" anywhere.

Perhaps that God is more likely to exist if you imagine that He will be actually useful and necessary in your life should you find Him. You have already admitted that you believe He is unnecessary but that you would be "open to evidence." I think you have already made your conclusion and use this whole argument as a logical justification for you not needing Him in the first place.Add By Edit: I suppose that this is true for me as well. If jars idea of God was the reality rather than my own idea, I likely would prefer that such a God never be found nor that such a God actually be the real One. Edited by Thugpreacha, : upon reflection