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Author Topic:   The Hate Thread
JonF
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Posts: 5627
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 16 of 67 (860774)
08-11-2019 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
08-11-2019 5:14 PM


Re: General Apology
ONLY AMERICA HAS EVER CARED ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD

By what measure? China, Russia, Germany, Japan, and the UK have foreign aid programs comparable to ours and people involved in construction and direct aid world-wide. Some sources say China outspends us in foreign aid.

Of course, Trump’s made it clear "America First" is "America Alone", by insulting and alienating our friends and allies. He's also made it clear we can't be trusted to stand by our commitments. That's why the world is realigning to avoid America.

Such as patrolling the Persian Gulf. Trump called for a multinational effort and nobody answered. The UK put together a multinational force and didn't ask us to the dance. (The UK may allow us in with Johnson ASPM).

Both Germany and France have explicitly stated they don't trust the US to keep our NATO commitments.

Or the fight over Kashmir. Trump claimed he had been asked to mediate. India and Pakistan both said "bullshit, and kindly f*** off".

TPP, the Iran deal, and the Paris accord are proceeding without us.

This guy nailed it:

quote:
Trump “has a transactional approach to international relations, in which there is little regard for historic allies or even traditional enemies. It is all about getting headlines in U.S. media that might endear Trump to his base at home,” said former Pakistani Ambassador to the U.S. Husain Haqqani. “Trump’s comments during Imran Khan’s visit had only one purpose: to get Pakistani help in securing a deal with the Taliban for a U.S. military withdrawal before the 2020 elections. His comments annoyed India, led Prime Minister Modi to expedite integration of Kashmir, and did little to get what Trump wants in Afghanistan.”

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 08-11-2019 5:14 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17679
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(3)
Message 17 of 67 (860844)
08-12-2019 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
08-11-2019 5:14 PM


Re: General Apology
Faith writes:

We have responsibility for America, don't we? Certainly that's the job of our President, to protect and defend and promote America. And through conservative eyes America has been unfairly attacked by the Left for decades now....


Those leftists are Americans too. It is not presidential to vilify a large proportion of his own people.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 08-11-2019 5:14 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 67 (860899)
08-13-2019 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by ringo
08-12-2019 1:23 PM


Patriots In Hong Kong
Faith writes:

We have responsibility for America, don't we? Certainly that's the job of our President, to protect and defend and promote America. And through conservative eyes America has been unfairly attacked by the Left for decades now....


ringo writes:

Those leftists are Americans too. It is not presidential to vilify a large proportion of his own people.

I am a political moderate. I see positive traits in both Left and Right Wing ideologies and I also disagree with many of what both sides push. ringos argument is sound, yhowever. The president needs to represent all of the people...no matter what the ideology is. We are not a populist nation any more than we are a liberal nation.

Faith writes:

I get that you are torn between some liberal positions and some conservative ones, and that discussion could get well beyond my abilities pretty rapidly, but the idea that people who are wealthier than you are have any desire or ability to deprive you of money is a liberal lie.

The fact is that the wealthier people expect the US middle class to support itself...in a world where we have to work harder and get educated simply to keep up with the competitive nature of the rest of the planet. I suppose this is not directly the wealthier peoples fault...but it exposes the idea that they look out only for themselves and do not want to help their fellow brethren succeed. This whole idea that marxists dominate the University campuses is also one-sided. You get your information wearing rose colored glasses. Christians are not only conservatives nor should they be.

Also...responding to Faith in another thread:


They are waving our flag and singing our anthem in Hong Kong????? Judging from the many comments from the video, it appears that they are respecting the United States way of life rather than attacking it. Where did you get any other idea?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by AZPaul3, posted 08-13-2019 6:57 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 08-13-2019 10:05 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 08-13-2019 10:29 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4788
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 19 of 67 (860901)
08-13-2019 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Thugpreacha
08-13-2019 6:43 AM


Re: Patriots In Hong Kong
it appears that they are respecting the United States way of life rather than attacking it. Where did you get any other idea?

What "other idea"?

I don't think she meant her post as a negative.

Regardless of our internal differences in this world, at least in China, the USofA is still a beacon of freedom.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-13-2019 6:43 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 20 of 67 (860906)
08-13-2019 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Thugpreacha
08-13-2019 6:43 AM


Re: Patriots In Hong Kong
Yes they are strongly respecting our way of life. I gather it was my question marks that caused a doubt about why I posted the Hong Kong picture? I was very surprised to find Chinese expressing such feelings for the US, that's all. I knew they were protesting in favor of democracy but identifying with us in such a political way was a big surprise. A HAPPY surprise of course. Very touching.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-13-2019 6:43 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by AZPaul3, posted 08-13-2019 10:24 AM Faith has responded
 Message 24 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-13-2019 10:50 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4788
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 21 of 67 (860907)
08-13-2019 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Faith
08-13-2019 10:05 AM


Re: Patriots In Hong Kong
I was very surprised to find Chinese expressing such feelings for the US

Then you don't remember Tiananmen Square and the Goddess of Liberty statue said to be inspired by our own Statue of Liberty.

They were looking to get our attention then and they are looking to get our attention now.

Though our hearts go out to them I think we all know where this is headed. There will not be a pleasant outcome.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 08-13-2019 10:05 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 08-13-2019 10:33 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 22 of 67 (860909)
08-13-2019 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Thugpreacha
08-13-2019 6:43 AM


Re: Patriots In Hong Kong
The fact is that the wealthier people expect the US middle class to support itself...in a world where we have to work harder and get educated simply to keep up with the competitive nature of the rest of the planet. I suppose this is not directly the wealthier peoples fault...but it exposes the idea that they look out only for themselves and do not want to help their fellow brethren succeed.

At least among Christians I was impressed very early on in my experiences of church that the wealthy members are extraordinarily generous toward those in need, both those in the church and those outside. Always writing out checks.

This whole idea that marxists dominate the University campuses is also one-sided. You get your information wearing rose colored glasses. Christians are not only conservatives nor should they be.

It's a simple fact, Thugs, since the sixties the Marxists that were so vocal in those years went on to become university professors and teach Marxist concepts to the next generations. It's a fact. I don't know why you aren't aware of it. It has nothing to do with my being a Christian or a conservative -- which I wasn't until the middle eighties anyway, maybe even more accurately the nineties. The atmosphere was heavy with Marxism in the sixties, at least where I was, and in most of the other university towns in the nation. I had had a boyfriend as a matter of fact who went on to become one of those professors of Marxism, a history professor but strongly Marxist.

This isn't going to sit well with some here but I would mention that even citizens of the US can hold ideologies that oppose the very essence of the nation and might even under some circumstances be considered treasonous. That would be us conservatives of course, from the dominant point of view here.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-13-2019 6:43 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 23 of 67 (860910)
08-13-2019 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by AZPaul3
08-13-2019 10:24 AM


Re: Patriots In Hong Kong
I remember the famous image from Tienanmen Square of the man standing off the tanks, but I wasn't following the events and don't remember the statue of Liberty.

I've been trying not to think of what's going to happen to them. Pray for them of course.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by AZPaul3, posted 08-13-2019 10:24 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5881
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 24 of 67 (860911)
08-13-2019 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Faith
08-13-2019 10:05 AM


Re: Patriots In Hong Kong
Yes they are strongly respecting our way of life. I gather it was my question marks that caused a doubt about why I posted the Hong Kong picture? I was very surprised to find Chinese expressing such feelings for the US, that's all. I knew they were protesting in favor of democracy but identifying with us in such a political way was a big surprise. A HAPPY surprise of course. Very touching.

Having been semi-autonomous, Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan have enjoyed a much higher degree of freedom when compared to the rest of China. Once you get a taste of freedom and then get a taste of repression, its repulsive. One of the stipulations for Hong Kong as it was being transferred back to China from the UK was that it got to enjoy some economic sovereignty. The PRC is back-peddling now and becoming increasingly more authoritarian to convert Hong Kong into the rest of mainland China. Taiwan is next to fall. I don't like what I'm seeing at all. The US and the rest of the world almost certainly is not willing to go to war with China over it. They are our strongest economic partner. But we will continue to pressure them using diplomacy. Hong Kong and Taiwan deserves the world's support.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15666
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 25 of 67 (860913)
08-13-2019 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Hyroglyphx
08-13-2019 10:50 AM


Re: Patriots In Hong Kong
quote:
Taiwan is next to fall.

I assume that you meant to write Macau. Taiwan is not ruled by the PRC even though they claim possession. And it has its own military, and enough support from the US to deter a Chinese attack.

Unless you expect Trump to throw Taiwan under the bus and allow the Chinese to invade Taiwan for some promises of economic concessions I don’t see the Chinese risking it.


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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5881
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 26 of 67 (860914)
08-13-2019 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
08-13-2019 10:33 AM


Re: Patriots In Hong Kong
I remember the famous image from Tienanmen Square of the man standing off the tanks, but I wasn't following the events and don't remember the statue of Liberty.

Many Chinese citizens aren't even aware that such an event took place, as their great Firewall of China has scrubbed their internet clean of the event. They treat it like the 13th floor and pretend it doesn't exist. They obviously have taken active measures to not having the next generation getting any wise ideas from the past.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 27 of 67 (861685)
08-25-2019 2:28 PM


The Kochs & Soros
I'll move this over here.

RAZD writes:

David Koch, conservative donor and philanthropist, has died at age 79 One down ...

Enjoy

Theodoric writes:

I hope his death was painful. Fuck him.

Chiroptera writes:

As one comment I read put it, it almost makes you wish there were a hell, doesn't it?

Tanypteryx writes:

I certainly agree with you about the character of Koch. He used his wealth and power to hasten the destruction of our planet's life support sytems. And he also used that power to influence our legislatures and Congress to stack the deck in his favor to avoid fair taxes and environmental protection regulations. He was truly an ugly American.

And surprisingly, he also was a major contributor to public broadcasting and supported a number of programs that I enjoy watching and support myself.

I find myself really, really puzzled why he engaged in a pattern of behavior that clearly is leading to accelerating degradation of the life support system and life on Earth. It is baffling to me that a powerful individual would have such disdain for the future of humanity and all life.

Of course, he's gone, so he will not have to face the consequences of his lifelong behavior. The real villains rarely do.(...)I ran into a guy a while back who was still pissed that Ken Lay (Enron CEO) died a few months into his prison sentence. It was like he wanted to resurrect the guy so he could serve a real life sentence.


Faith writes:

Oh all right, I have to ask: why do you all hate them so much? I've heard of them, that they are rich supporters of conservative causes, but I've also heard from conservatives that they don't like their politics. In any case I really don't know anything about them except those comments. So why do you hate them so much? Is it something like how my side hates Soros?

I suspect you've hit the nail on the head, Faith. The Koch Brothers were the conservative versions of George Soros. I'll research a bit to add fuel to our Hate Thread. All I know from what I have read so far is that the Koch Brothers contributed nothing to the Trump campaign, yet they are conservatives.

George Soros: Billionaire philanthropist the far right loves to hate
Why Do People Hate the Koch Brothers? Their Political Influence Does Not Sit Well With Many Americans

Edited by Thugpreacha, : added comment


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 08-25-2019 2:35 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 08-25-2019 2:41 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 42 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-25-2019 5:26 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 43 by ramoss, posted 08-25-2019 9:12 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17679
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 28 of 67 (861688)
08-25-2019 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Thugpreacha
08-25-2019 2:28 PM


Re: The Kochs & Soros
Phat writes:

... from what I have read so far is that the Koch Brothers contributed nothing to the Trump campaign, yet they are conservatives.

quote:
"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative."
-- John Stewart Mill
To paraphrase: Even a conservative doesn't have to be an idiot.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-25-2019 2:28 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 29 of 67 (861691)
08-25-2019 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Thugpreacha
08-25-2019 2:28 PM


Re: The Kochs & Soros
Couldn't help noticing the political tendentiousness of these two titles, meaning they are both from the Leftist perspective:

George Soros: Billionaire philanthropist the far right loves to hate

Why Do People Hate the Koch Brothers? Their Political Influence Does Not Sit Well With Many Americans

It's the "FAR right" who object to Soros, and only the far right, though in my experience it's the Right, period, the legitimate Right. We all have a problem with Soros who finances every kind of destructive attack on American and conservative concerns.

But of course it's all "Americans," not just the Far Left or even the Left as such, who particularly hate the Koch brothers. Now it's "Americans" who are far left, while it's only the "far right" who hate Soros. Is this just the usual media bias showing or is it an intentional attempt to influence the reader?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-25-2019 2:28 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-25-2019 2:45 PM Faith has responded
 Message 35 by JonF, posted 08-25-2019 3:18 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 30 of 67 (861692)
08-25-2019 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Faith
08-25-2019 2:41 PM


Re: The Kochs & Soros
I just pulled them off the internet...I never really thought about the media sources in general. I googled "Why do the left hate Soros? and "Why do the Right hate the Koch Brothers.

I have heard, however, that media in general is left of center ideologically. Being a political moderate, I usually read several articles from different sources, but I never really consider that the way articles are written surreptitiously forms my political views. Should I?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 08-25-2019 2:41 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 08-25-2019 2:47 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
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