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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 678 of 868 (859011)
07-26-2019 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 676 by ringo
07-23-2019 11:53 AM


ringo writes:
Maybe I don't understand judgement as it applies in your dogma.
Not only do you not understand Christian judgement, but you are being a hypocrite: You tell me not to judge jar, but by doing so you are judging me! So your nonsense concept of Biblical judgement fails at the most fundamental level.
I'm just going by what the Bible actually says.
In that case, you need to consider the following verses:
Do not judge by appearances, but JUDGE with right judgement. (John 7:24). Oh dear Jesus says we can JUDGE others.
My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins. (James 5:19-20)
When I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. (Ezk 3:18-19)
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be \[b\]accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed (Galatians 1:8-9). Uh oh - there’s some serious judgement going on here! Fake Christians who don’t preach the same doctrine as the apostles are JUDGED to be accused.
It's pretty much the same thing, though. If you decide that somebody is not a Christian, you are saying they're going to Hell.
Where did you get that silly idea? It certainly isn’t a Catholic point of view. I have no idea at all who is going to hell and I’m not in the least bit qualified to make that judgement (in fact, no human is). Furthermore, I believe that many non-Christians will be saved and go to heaven. Nevertheless, denying the divinity of the earthly Jesus (as jar does) is a serious heresy and those who subscribe to such a view are not considered to be part of the body of Christ (for example, Jehovah’s Witnesses are considered to be fake Christians).
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 676 by ringo, posted 07-23-2019 11:53 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 680 by ringo, posted 07-27-2019 12:05 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 710 of 868 (859596)
08-01-2019 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 679 by jar
07-26-2019 6:38 PM


jar writes:
Yet that is what the Nicene Creed says.
Yeah right - that’s how it might read to a five year-old ignoramus who doesn’t understand that and became man in the Nicene Creed refers to the doctrine of the Incarnation and whose underdeveloped mind doesn’t understand that God cannot stop being God and become just a man.
Btw, if Jesus was just a man when he was on the earth, how do you explain the following verse? We are not stoning you because of any good work but for blasphemy, but because you, a mere man, claim to be God. (John 10:33)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 679 by jar, posted 07-26-2019 6:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 711 by Theodoric, posted 08-01-2019 11:48 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 713 by dwise1, posted 08-02-2019 1:44 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 715 by jar, posted 08-02-2019 8:13 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 731 of 868 (860003)
08-05-2019 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 715 by jar
08-02-2019 8:13 AM


jar writes:
Easy to explain. The author of John asserts that Jesus claimed to be God. Blasphemy was a capital offense.
Correct. So if Jesus claimed to be God when he was on earth, why do you claim he wasn’t?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 715 by jar, posted 08-02-2019 8:13 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 732 by AZPaul3, posted 08-05-2019 4:53 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 733 by jar, posted 08-05-2019 8:35 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


(1)
Message 737 of 868 (860797)
08-12-2019 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 711 by Theodoric
08-01-2019 11:48 PM


Theodoric writes:
You are an offensive idiot.
This comment is offensive and idiotic. An idiot is someone who cannot speak or read or write. I don't qualify as a idiot.
I'm more likely a moron, a cretin or subnormal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 711 by Theodoric, posted 08-01-2019 11:48 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 751 of 868 (861333)
08-20-2019 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 733 by jar
08-05-2019 8:35 AM


jar writes:
The author of John was marketing a revisionist Jesus tale which is quite different than what is found in the other Gospels
Unfortunately for your nonsense theory, Jesus is accused of blasphemy in the other three gospels as well (eg, Matt 9:2-3, Mark 2:5-7, Luke 5:20-21). So all four gospels record that Jesus claimed to be God but you claim they’re wrong and that you know better!
What sort of so-called Christian blatantly ignores all four gospels and invents his own delusionary theology? A fake Christian, of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 733 by jar, posted 08-05-2019 8:35 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 752 by jar, posted 08-20-2019 8:06 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 753 of 868 (861793)
08-27-2019 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 752 by jar
08-20-2019 8:06 AM


jar writes:
But once again you are simply denying reality. The Gospel of John has always been recognized as different than the other three Gospels which is why Mathew mark and luke are grouped as the Synoptic Gospels. Sorry but that is basic Christian history.
Er, what does this have to do with what we were talking about??? You claimed that the gospel of John was different it that it reported that Jesus claimed to be God - which I then pointed out is incorrect, because the other three gospels report exactly the same thing. (Btw, I was taught about the difference between the gospel of John and the Synoptic Gospels when I was about thirteen.)
Yet the fact also remains that that is what is actually written in the Nicene Creed.
No, it’s not a fact. But here is a fact - you don’t know what you’re talking about.
You claim that - contrary to the evidence provided by all four gospels - the Nicene Creed says Jesus was just a man while on earth. But your claim is easily demonstrated to be nonsense by this fact: The Nicene Creed was formulated by the Catholic Church, which teaches the dogma of the Incarnation - ie, the earthly Jesus was both fully-God and fully-human.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 752 by jar, posted 08-20-2019 8:06 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 754 by jar, posted 08-27-2019 9:10 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 770 of 868 (861970)
08-30-2019 3:11 AM
Reply to: Message 754 by jar
08-27-2019 9:10 AM


jar writes:
Yet the fact remains what is actually written takes precedence over the dogma of your cult. The Nicean Creed says that Jesus became man. All the claims of your cult cannot change the fact of what was actually written.
You're like a drunk fool bumbling and stumbling from one dud argument to the next. The Incarnation is very clearly expressed in the Scriptures, which should take precedence of your ignorant interpretation of the Nicene Creed - but it doesn't, because you deny the Scriptures.
You also claim to know better than the Catholic Church (the original and largest Church) and the rest of Christianity, all of whom consider the Incarnation to be a core doctrine of their religion.
The only Christians who might agree with your heretical interpretation of the Nicene Creed would be a few misfit fringe-dwellers who aren’t considered to be part of the body of Christ - imposters like Jehovah’s Witnesses and other assorted retards and hillbillies.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 754 by jar, posted 08-27-2019 9:10 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 775 by jar, posted 08-30-2019 7:03 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 771 of 868 (861971)
08-30-2019 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 756 by Faith
08-27-2019 11:55 AM


post withdrawn
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 756 by Faith, posted 08-27-2019 11:55 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 772 of 868 (861972)
08-30-2019 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 756 by Faith
08-27-2019 11:55 AM


Faith writes:
The Roman Church was understood by the Protestant Reformers to have begun when the Bishop of Rome was made Universal Bishop by the Byzantine Emperor Phocas, and called Pope, in 606 AD, the beginning of the papal system.
The early Church was called Catholic at least as early as AD107:
The first use of the term "Catholic Church" (literally meaning "universal church") was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50—140) in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD) The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "Catholic Church" is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 to Christians in Smyrna. Exhorting Christians to remain closely united with their bishop, he wrote: "Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(term)
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Admin, : Fix formatting problems.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 756 by Faith, posted 08-27-2019 11:55 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 773 of 868 (861973)
08-30-2019 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 760 by jar
08-27-2019 5:20 PM


jar writes:
I point out that all of the evidence shows that every God described has been the product of a human mind.
So why do bother with what you call Christianity, if it’s all a fabrication of the human mind?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 760 by jar, posted 08-27-2019 5:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 774 by Faith, posted 08-30-2019 7:03 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 776 by jar, posted 08-30-2019 7:15 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 777 of 868 (862116)
09-01-2019 5:17 AM
Reply to: Message 776 by jar
08-30-2019 7:15 AM


jar writes:
While all that is in the Bible is of course the product and creation of human minds, that does not make it all a fabrication.
Well, in terms of the Bible, my idea of a fabrication is something that doesn’t come from God, but from humans. So if the entire Bible is a product of human minds, then the entire Bible is a fabrication. Nevertheless, I’m interested in which parts of the Bible you consider to be not a fabrication.
As I have said, I am a Christian because I was raised in a Christian home, became a member of a recognized Christian Church, was educated in a Christian School and find many of the teachings, the gospel of Jesus a reasonable and practical way to live.
So you’re Christian on the outside, but not on the inside. In other words, like I said, you’re a fake Christian.
Do you believe in life after death?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 776 by jar, posted 08-30-2019 7:15 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 780 by jar, posted 09-01-2019 10:00 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 778 of 868 (862117)
09-01-2019 5:20 AM
Reply to: Message 775 by jar
08-30-2019 7:03 AM


jar writes:
Yet the fact remains, that is exactly what is written in the Nicene Creed
Your interpretation of the Nicene Creed contradicts the NT, from which the Creed is derived. Hilarious. But you don't believe any of it, which makes your attempts at theology even funnier.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 775 by jar, posted 08-30-2019 7:03 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 779 by jar, posted 09-01-2019 7:45 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 781 of 868 (862524)
09-06-2019 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 780 by jar
09-01-2019 10:00 AM


jar writes:
None of the Bible comes from God unless the God is intentionally supplying false and misleading information. There is no other explanation possible since there are numerous examples of stories that evolve as they are retold and also examples of direct mutually exclusive accounts of supposedly the same event. Over the years I've covered many such examples here. Two clear examples are from the New Testament; the evolution of the Great Commission and the encounter of Saul on the road to Damascus.
The fact that you’ve put so much effort into debunking the Bible and its supernatural contents strongly suggests you are motivated by some gigantic hang-up about Christianity. Maybe you were abused by some fag priest when you were ten. Who knows?
Additional evidence that the Bible is a creation of humans is the fact that there is no such thing as "The Bible" but rather a whole set of canons ranging from the smallest that contains only the first five books and none of the New Testament to the largest that contains over 80 books.
News flash!! God’s official organisation on earth - the Catholic Church - defined exactly what the Bible contains about 1500 years ago.
But if there is a Heaven I am very sure Christians will be a very small minority there and that there will be far more atheist, agnostics, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews. Taoists as well as followers of Confucius and Mencius in attendance.
Your anti-Christian phobia is showing again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 780 by jar, posted 09-01-2019 10:00 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 783 by jar, posted 09-06-2019 7:55 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 784 by ringo, posted 09-06-2019 12:10 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 795 by Phat, posted 09-14-2019 4:42 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


(1)
Message 782 of 868 (862525)
09-06-2019 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 779 by jar
09-01-2019 7:45 AM


jar writes:
Yet the fact remains I am not interpreting anything but rather simply pointing out what is actually written in EVERY version of the Nicene Creed since 325CE.
It's also a fact the the Bible is filled with contradicts and mutually exclusive accounts of what is said to have happened.
Contradiction? All four gospels provide accounts of Jesus being accused of blasphemy by the Jews. In each case, it is because Jesus claimed to be God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 779 by jar, posted 09-01-2019 7:45 AM jar has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 791 of 868 (862833)
09-13-2019 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 783 by jar
09-06-2019 7:55 AM


jar writes:
the fact remains that I AM a Christian
That joke never grows old - makes me laugh every time I hear it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 783 by jar, posted 09-06-2019 7:55 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 792 by jar, posted 09-13-2019 6:24 PM Dredge has not replied

  
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