You do realize donnie was attacking a black congressman when he referred to Baltmore as rat infested, don't you?
Yeah, he was attacking the black congressmen... but you seem to believe he was attacking on the basis of his race. Trump attacks everyone and anyone that speaks in an unflattering tone to him. To me his comment was one of hypocrisy. "How can you speak to me about this or that when you can't even clean up a tiny portion of the country?" That was my interpretation of it. If you thought it was petulant, you and I were in agreement. If you thought it was un-presidential, you and I are in agreement. If you think deep down Trump is a racist, you and I are in agreement. But do I think his comment was meant to have been a racial slight? No. And I think it speaks more to your racist mind to draw that conclusion than it does his.
Sam Harris is hardly a credible person to talk about racism. He is an alt right and white supremacist enabler.
What the fuck is an Alt-Right enabler??? Here's a hint: he and his panel (all leftists, btw) were basically referring to you in that segment. You are exactly the kind of person they were talking about.
His rants against the concept of white privilege and his embrace of Milos shows that. I find it funny that a person that claims to not be alt right continually puts forth alt right arguments and sources. It must be tough not having the convictions of your beliefs.
Milo, you mean that racist homophobe who openly sucks black dick? And Sam Harris, the guy who urged all his listeners to vote for Clinton over Trump? Milo is a provocateur and a professional troll. I wouldn't take much of what he says as too serious. But he's gay and he's married to a black man... so I'm not sure how qualified that makes him to be the typical racist homophobe. Sam Harris has been a leftwing demagogue, anti-christian, anti-creationist for the better part of 20 years until the Left went so far towards the left that its no longer on the page.
Oh yeah you really should follow forum rules. You consistently post bare links. If you want to discuss the podcast than summarize the "salient points" and we can discuss them. If you are not willing to do that you should remove the link from your post. I am not going to give Sam the benefit of a click.
Ah, so you didn't even click on the link but you're so certain that it was a bare link??? That is an amazing feat! Had you clicked on the link and listened to it, you would clearly see that it was very much relevant to the commentary that preceded it therefore making not a bare link. You're a caricature of everything discussed on that link. It might be edifying for you to hear how the sane left views your extremism.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
My woke mind drew the connection when I saw that Elijah Cummings is black and that he represents a black majority district. Context matters.
Okay, cool... lets talk about context. Because the context that I shared was one of not defending Trump but of discussing the exaggerations of the Regressive Left wing of the Democratic Party. This is now the third time to try to steer the conversation towards that and every time you dodge it.
Again, I think it says more about the people leveling the accusation than it does the one who said it. Your mind immediately drew a connection to rat-infested hellhole with black people. That's kind of amazing to me... and you say its only because Elijah Cummings is black therefore insinuating that if he referred to Baltimore in the same vain, but was explaining it to a white district rep, that it wouldn't have been racist... it just would have been a mean thing to say about the fine people of Baltimore.
Everybody, to include the residents of Baltimore, know that when compared to other cities of comparative size, that something is a little off.
Everything that people on the Right say is racist or homophobic or xenophobic or sexist or whatever outrageous label they've weaponized. Now its getting to the point where Sam Harris, a long-standing Democrat, is referred to as an "Alt-Right enabler" because he's not extreme enough, while simultaneously defending the disgusting and criminal actions of ANTIFA. That's pathetic.
The Republican and Democratic Party are turning into mobs... voices in the middle are getting drowned out by the shrill voices of the extreme on both sides. There shouldn't be a Proud Boys, Alt-Right, ANTIFA, or anything resembling it. This is reactionary bullshit to people who are to afraid to reside in the middle and actually collaborate peacefully... meanwhile, Russia is laughing their ass off at our expense.
There is something as a bridge too far... and we're crossing over it now.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
You tried to illustrate "the exaggerations of the Regressive Left wing" with an example that turns out to be bonafide racism. If you want to discuss unfair accusations of racism, you need to find a better example. Or do a better example of convincing us that your example really is relevant. It's not really dodging an issue if you're failed to demonstrate there actually is an issue.
The truth is that no matter what I say or what kind of evidence is presented will never suffice because then you'd be confronted with reality as it were, not as you wish it to be. This country has gotten infinitely more sensitive with respect to race and has used it as a club to quickly dispatch one's political opponents. And that is because when it comes to something like this, which is often measured by interpretations, the power lies within the accusation, not the facts. Its literally akin to proving that strawberry ice cream tastes better than chocolate... (which it clearly doesn't) All levity aside, this ultimately comes down to how people view things... and that it something difficult for either of us to convince the other of.
Having said that, you see no difference in the amount of racially charged content on the air within the past decade? I would say that we're going backwards... not forwards. And this isn't because racism is becoming more prevalent, its because our threshold for what qualifies as "racist" has lowered to the point of absurdity.
I know. You tried to gain a rhetorical advantage by accusing me of racism. It didn't work. I not only continued to explain how Trump's comments were racist, but I tried to explain why it matters who the target is.
Just pointing out that perhaps your subconscious is crying out! When I think of a rat-infested hellhole, I think of a shitty, run down place... my mind doesn't make a connection to black people. Sorry to disappoint.
If being in the middle means ignoring blatant examples of racism in our important government officials, then I'm not sure that the middle is really morally defensible position.
If being on the Left for you means that lowering a race is the only way to elevate another then I'll happily reside in the middle where true equality exists. I'm just trying to make the world a better place and perhaps you are too, for however misguided it might be. But your heart's in the right place, so I can't find fault in that.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
The article talks about how all the white nationalist groups in the US and in Europe are linked, and how these links lead to Russia, and how these links are deliberately hidden.
How pervasive is it theorized to be?
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
Pervasive enough they have you posting their propaganda pieces here at EvC ... twice.
Did I? Remind me what those faux pas were again? Cuz its been my understanding that white nationalists are proud and vocal to be such. If I was a white nationalist or a white nationalist sympathizer, I would just tell you. I'm quite fond of the notion that my grandparents were Nazi killers.
I'm trying to have a civil dialogue with Chiro, since what he's saying kind of makes sense. I'm kind of intrigued by what he wrote and was trying to gain insight. I'm not sure why you're throwing molotov cocktails my way.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
If you don't want to be confused for a duck stop quacking like one.
Your collection of CNN narrative, false allegations does not make it so. I know in your extremist mind all you have to do is make the allegation, but in the real world you have to qualify and substantiate an allegation. If you're not interested in having an actual conversation then go sulk in the corner and move aside for people that do.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
Btw. You're entitled to whatever beliefs you want. You want to spread hatred, fear, and right wing propaganda you can do that. Just don't bitch about being compared to Nazis when you do what Nazis do.
Good 'ole Godwin's Law at its best... When you can't make an argument, just derail the thread by calling your opponent a "Nazi." I suppose it would just be easier to smear you as a no good commie because you espouse beliefs shared by ANTIFA, but that really wouldn't advance what could be enriching dialogue in search for common ground. Maybe I'm just not as woke as you.
"A paradox for our time: The far Left is disproportionately white, wealthy, and well-educated. So extreme wokeness is now one of the most glaring symptoms of white privilege. -- Sam Harris
Geez, maybe you like white people more than I do!
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
Re: Come back and defend yourself against this false accusation, Hyro
I haven't seen Hyro express anything but normal conservative views, nothing alt right and nothing Nazi, which like "racist" are just the usual smear tactics of the Left.
The truth is that racism is not more pervasive than ever, its that our collective threshold for what qualifies as racism has diminished to absurd levels. The Far-Left finds power in division -- they erect bogeymen to create in themselves some Robin Hood, Che Guevara-esque quality they think they possess. The truth is the misery is what gives them a deep and abiding sense of purpose -- like a pig wallowing in the mud. In their deluded minds the only way to elevate another race is to push another down. They don't want equality in practice, they only want it in principle.
Here's an example of the patronizing tone clearly meant to signal her virtues.
I can talk to those white women in the suburbs.... LOL! How patronizing.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
Let me first thank you your civil and constructive tone. It is appreciated.
quote:Over all, more than one in five links were from non-Swedish language sites. English-language sites, along with Norwegian ones, linked the most, nearly a million times. But other European-language far-right sites Russian but also Czech, Danish, German, Finnish and Polish were also frequent linkers.
The Times identified 356 domains that linked to all four Swedish sites.
I think the biggest problem is the widening gulf that exists between Far Right and Far Left politics tend to be the loudest and they're drowning voices closer towards the middle. In a way, I see them fueling one another more so than they combat one another. I think it is amplifying the problem and is pulling once saner minds further to the extreme fringes. I really don't like the trend I'm seeing. Looks reminiscent of the days leading up to WWII -- crazy people convinced of the rightness of their position and willing to kill others to prove it.
Other domains that linked to all four Swedish sites included Stormfront, one of the oldest and largest American white supremacist sites; Voice of Europe, a Kremlin-friendly right-wing site; a Russian-language blog called Sweden4Rus.nu; and FreieWelt.net, a site supportive of the AfD in Germany.
I've always viewed white nationalism as fringe elements that really didn't possess substantial numbers to be all that threatening -- kind of like a crazy, racist uncle that talks shit when he gets drunk and you have to put him in check. And while I still think much of it is probably being overblown, I do think their ranks are swelling nevertheless, and that is problematic. If you can exist in a mindset that if only we had a society filled with X and that ridding said society of Y, you're living in a delusion. A homogenous society can work, we have examples of it (Russia, Japan, etc). And then we have examples where it doesn't work (North Korea). We also have examples of multicultural societies working (US, UK, Canada, etc). And we have examples where its starting to break down (Sweden, France, etc).
I see Far Right extremism and Far Left extremism as reactionary to the other. We need to cool it down and meet in the middle. People aren't born racist, they're taught. And people that were once non-racist become racist, just people once racist and become non-racist. But we do have a problem... its an open wound that is festering and we need to be treating the disease not the symptoms.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
Humans deserve respect, help and freedom, not the hate, fear and white supremacist propaganda you seem to favor.
There you again, convinced of my collusion with "white supremacist propaganda." Your reason? I guess because I'm not self-effacing enough for you? Or I don't exude white guilt? I don't get it. Maybe you can clearly diagram what is that I do or say that convinces you so thoroughly of it. When have I ever shied away from saying something controversial? If I was all the things you said I am, I would flatly tell you.
If respect, help and freedom for people is shared by Antifa then I'm good with that. Go ahead, paint me with that brush.
Then you have no objectivity, in which case its actually pointless to try to talk to you.
he goal here, Hyro, is not to accommodate the alt-reich but to stomp its head in before it breeds into the monster it is trying to become ... again.
But you're not attacking the Alt-Right, you're accusing people of being Alt-Right that aren't. The reality is that I'm just not extreme enough for your liking. I'm sorry I'm not an extremist. You're balls deep in a cult right now and you can't see the forest from the trees. Good luck to you on your journey.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
On the left they are pushing universal healthcare, universal education, jobs programs and welfare.
I would like to see a model similar to Australia's healthcare model in the US, universal education is already implemented for K-12 and although I would absolutely revamp colleges making it universal is a fruitless endeavor, I'm for expanding job training programs to replace a typical college education by at least half with a greater emphasis on trades, and welfare is gigantic as it is.
You confuse social programs with charity... and you think you're a saint if you advocate for them.
On the right they are pushing building walls, more/bigger tax cuts for the super wealthy, armed troops and concentration camps.
I literally want none of those things, so I guess that leaves me more leftist than it does conservative. I think a "wall" is an antiquated idea and think you'd have better results by dumping $80 billion into an open hole in the desert, I want companies like Amazon to pay taxes and don't agree with tax shelters, and I don't want "concentration camps."
The left is for improving the human condition while the right is for preserving the wealth and dominance of the chosen race.
Yeah, that's not slanted at all.
The alt-Reich vids *you* chose to post on this forum were not about helping people in times of dire need but were about preserving the advantages of your white race.
Yeah, Sam Harris and Tulsi Gabbard are world-renown, Hitlerian, white supremacists bent on creating a 4th Reich... Dude... get serious for a second.... You apparently can't even pretend to be a little objective. You've gone from fairly center left to off the page, comrade. You and your little fanboy echo chamber are in a cult and you don't even know it.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
You speak as if Harris and Gabbard are some sort of liberal stalwarts. That you think they are liberals shows how far right you are.
Either it proves how far right I am or this witch hunt how proves how Far Left you and the fanboy echo chamber are. I was called Alt-Right by AZPaul because of the videos I posted. The last videos I recall posting were that of Sam Harris and other self-identified liberals and two liberal YouTube channel hosts (Jimmy Dore and Kyle Kuklinski) critical of how Tulsi Gabbard, running for the Democratic Party, hasn't had a fair shake by mainstream media. But I'm continued to be called Alt-Right. You'd think I was posting videos of Richard Spencer by the criticisms I've received.
Both of them have some liberal stances, but this just shows that people are not easily pigeon holed and no two people have the exact same beliefs.
Then why pigeon hole me if you recognize how nuanced personal beliefs can be? I'm not even referred to as Alt-Lite, which I would still disagree with, but at least would be a more accurate portrayal than some idiot throwing Heil Hitler salutes around. I have views that overlap with beliefs shared by the Right and the Left, again, depending on the topic. And I only retain those beliefs because they make rational sense to me. I am capable of free thought that extends beyond a political movement. I don't cues from movements or groupthink.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
Earlier in this thread, I was explaining how Trump's comments to Elijah Cummings is oldfashioned racist, and it needs to be confronted. You, if I'm interpreting you correctly, were saying Trump's comments aren't racist.
What would be "the middle" position on this?
That criticisms of what a black person said is not the same as criticisms of a black person because they're black.
As I've said, repeatedly, this isn't a a defense of Trump. It is a criticism that identity politics is going too far.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
Re: Maybe you should address responses to assertions you have made
He made no mention that it was the Sam Harris or Tulsi Gabbard videos, or that it was videos at all.
He said I'm Alt-Right based on the videos that I post and that was all he said. I pointed out that the last videos I recall embedding were of Sam Harris and Tulsi Gabbard -- not exactly hardline, rightwing apologists. I see, after the fact, that he is now specifically talking about a "Welcome To Sweden" video, which was not mentioned and which was uploaded like a month ago... so how am I supposed to interpret "videos that *YOU* post" when I post a lot of videos? And to clarify, I still think the Welcome to Sweden video is comedic and makes salient points. I have no idea if that guy is or is not Alt-Right. I just know that I'm not. But if calling me Alt-Right makes you feel better then whatever. I'm not gonna argue the point anymore.
This seems to be another attempt by you to build a strawman. You have a tendency to make assertions and then when you are questioned on them you build strawman arguments and then quit responding when you are shown facts that do not support your right wing talking points. Maybe you should ask AZPaul what the propaganda pieces are. I have a good idea but I may have different things in mind than he does. A number of us are waiting for reply's from you on a number of things you have asserted.
First of all, that's a matter of your interpretation. Imagine that that its unflattering towards me. Secondly, if there are reply's waiting for me, its usually because there is a never-ending stream. The email associated to my account is closed and has been for like 5 years, so unlike many of you, I don't receive any receipt of notification for replied messages. I just log on to EvC from time to time and see what is being discussed in a general sense and if it intrigues me, I'll chime in. But even if I did receive notifications, anything I post usually gets the dog pile. For every post I make I usually have 3-4 replies per post and I almost never have time during my work week to log in. And there are also multiple responses on different threads. Keeping track of what with whom can sometimes be difficult.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
All levity aside, this ultimately comes down to how people view things... and that it something difficult for either of us to convince the other of.
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