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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
I'm saying that you have to look. You said, "Things that only exist in our imagination will never exist in reality: all their ends will be dead." I'm asking how you can know they don't exist in reality unless you look? How can you know that "all" of the ends will be dead before you look at all of the ends? Are you saying no one has ever looked for God before and found nothing?"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why? I can find mosquitoes without wanting them or needing them.
You have to want/need Him. Phat writes:
You seem to be arguing against yourself.
In times such as these, life often no longer makes sense. it becomes irrational. Trust itself becomes irrational. Many people turn to God. Whether God actually exists or whether God is a panacea in their mind, they equate belief in God with an unwaverable trust---out of desperation. Phat writes:
You picked a fine time to start paying attention to the scriptures. Why don't you pay attention to what Jesus said? The idea that everyone has an equal chance(opportunity) at finding God is not scriptural."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
Nope. We don't go down the rabbit-hole of "you only thought you did - you didn't actually do it" because it's a completely separate issue from what we've been discussing. Why do we not go down that rabbit-hole?Because it's irrational - there's no link from the imagination to reality that suggests such a thing would actually be viable in the first place. We are accepting that I can actually bake a cake. We are accepting that we have searched for God. Unless we accept that we do have a connection to reality, there is nothing to discuss. But of course we don't know whether there is a link from imagination to reality until we look for one. We can not say the idea is irrational before we look. And we can not say that we "know" there is no link when there are still lots of places to look."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
No we haven't. Dark matter.
We have looked - scoured all of our available information. Stile writes:
Nope. Dark matter. You're asking me to look outside of our available information...."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
Until you look behind the dark matter, that statement is false.
We have looked - scoured all our available information. Stile writes:
How can you know a priori that there's no reason to look? ringo writes:
Sure we can. We can not say the idea is irrational before we look. If there's no rational link from imagination to reality that gives us a reason to look - then looking is irrational."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
You have it backwards. What is the reason to think we won't? What is the reason to think we will find God behind dark matter? There was no reason to think we would never find a Northwest Passage until we had explored every possibility. "We never found it in the past," was not an excuse to stop looking."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
I have: because you can't find anything if you don't look.
ringo writes:
When there's no reason. How can you know a priori that there's no reason to look?Please, if you have one - just provide it. Stile writes:
How do you know there is no link unless you look for one? All it has to do is have a rational link from the imagination of God to the possible reality of God."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
That's irrational. We can't know unless we look.
There are only irrational reasons, with no connection to reality, to think that God could exist behind dark matter. Stile writes:
Northwest Passage.
Every time in the past - when there have only been irrational reasons to think God could exist somewhere - and we end up being able to check that place - no evidence for God is ever found. For thousands of years. Stile writes:
There's never any evidence until we look. There is no evidence to suggest that God even exists in the first place at all let alone "only behind dark matter.""Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
Don't be silly. We don't need to look behind the dark matter for what we've already found.
Because we can't find out if you're-actually-baking-cakes-or-not if don't look behind dark matter. Stile writes:
No, we know that a place exists, behind the dark matter, where we currently have no ability to look. Just like they had no ability to cross the ice barriers to look for the Northwest Passage. We have looked everywhere within our currently available information. As long as we know there is a place where we haven't looked, we can not claim to know what we'd find if we could look."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
We don't have to know that something exists before we look for it. What sort of Gods do we know to exist before searching for God behind dark matter?"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
We know that ringo can bake cakes. We can't un-know that by looking behind the dark matter.
You're the one who said "the reason for looking is that we haven't checked yet."How does this also not apply to knowing we won't find out that ringo actually can't bake cakes when we look behind dark matter? Stile writes:
I can predict that in the future, Paris will have existed in the past.
Can you read the future? Stile writes:
Nonsense. The claim is not that ringo can bake cakes everywhere. It's that he can bake cakes somewhere. "As long as we know there is a place where we could identify that ringo actually cannot bake cakes, we cannot claim ringo knows how to bake cakes.""Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
You yourself said that rational means logical. There is nothing in the logic that requires something to exist before we look for it. Looking for something to find out if it exists is rational. ringo writes:
Of course not. We don't have to know that something exists before we look for it.But we do in order to call it rational. "Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
That's why I reserve the word "know' for something that can be demonstrated. The flatness of the earth can not be demonstrated. Baking a cake can.
Just like (many, many) years ago we knew the earth was flat. Are you saying that new information wasn't able to let us un-know that? Stile writes:
The claim is that God doesn't exist anywhere. The claim is not that God doesn't exist everywhere. It's that He doesn't exist somewhere (all of our available information.) Edited by ringo, : No reason given."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
You keep saying that but you haven't pointed out the errors in logic.
And what you're talking about is an irrational search as far as that framework is concerned. Stile writes:
As I said, I can demonstrate that I can bake a cake - to you or to anybody else who is interested. There can be no question of it being a figment of my imagination. It's objective. Is it rational to look for "something-that-tells-us-that-ringo-actually-cannot-bake-cakes, and-only-currently-thinks-he-can?""Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Stile writes:
What has been demonstrated can not be un-demonstrated. Your conspiracy theory will not work.
But you are unable to demonstrate that we won't find out that you actually cannot bake cakes when we check behind dark matter. Stile writes:
You're being dishonest. You've said, "I know that God does not exist," hundreds of times in this thread. You only put the qualifiers in when somebody scores on your goal.
ringo writes:
No it isn't. The claim is that God doesn't exist anywhere.It's a tentative claim that I know God doesn't exist according to the current information available to us. Stile writes:
Forget? No. I reject your made-up definition of knowledge. Did you forget what knowledge actually is?"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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