Theodoric still hasn't backed up his claim that I said LaRouche would have won
I doubt he ever will be able to back up his lies. He galloped away from the my topic of Democrats stealing votes.
(And he brought in a lot of stuff that was 100% irrelevant to what I ever brought up in this thread, AND AND AND AND in his typically personally accusatory nature)
I only want to comment on the issue of LaRouche being a racist against blacks.
I admit that the Obama years did seem to see the 85 (in 2007) year old LaRouche start to use words, at times, like "monkey", though I think he was being deliberately provocative (I suspect he felt he could deny it was racist, since "whites look more like chimps than anybody" , being the out-of-touch old man that he is).
Remember Bush was called "chimp boy" (and presented as a monkey), and blacks have told me (including a VERY GOOD friend who got a year's worth of Starbuck's drinks for free for being ignored by white coffee servers while serving white customers from behind in line) that it is a common saying in the black community that "whites look like chimps".
I agree that any reference to monkeys and minorities is racist, due to the historical attacks on people of color, but I am sure LaRouche got some idea in his head that it was an interesting idea to throw the words & jokes around.
IT WAS BAD!
But I want to get back to his 1980 comment about Jews and pop music. Theodoric just informed me, via his link, of it, I never saw it before.
(This is the only skin color racist comment from the pre-Obama years I have found)
The quote if from Theodoric's first link.
quote:"Jews are only N****** turned inside out."
"We will present the grotesque spectacle of individuals and sections of the pop music business competing in racialist serf-identification, tribal genealogy, and racist psychosis--the psychological truth of the whole affair being perhaps best summarized in the racist and anti-Semitic adage of the old South, 'Jews are only N****** turned inside out.'" From LaRouche's Campaigner magazine "The racist roots of Jazz" (Sept./Oct. 1980, p.56)
I will just say that this starts out by looking like just another conspiratorial attack on Jews, except for the last part which seems to bring skin color into the anti-Semitic part. LaRouche was never accused of seeing Jews as anything other than a white group (unlike Nazis).
I am sure LaRouche would have said that the (admitted) "racist and anti-Semitic" quote didn't 100% fit the point he was trying to make.
As for the conspiracy issue of (along the lines of) "whites creating 'black culture' which is not black of African", there were mainstream Democratic publications that made the same claim as late as the early 1990's.
Remember Marty Peretz's The New Republic made an issue in 1990 that rap is not genuinely 'black'.
I am not easy with this stuff, but it is interesting that the music issue (with a quote of a disagreeable "quote with a quote" in 1980) is the only thing Theodoric found from before 2007/2008.
I am not convinced that LaRouche made racist comments against blacks, until the Obama years.
(From what I still know, I don't think LaRouche held racist views against blacks, but he did use tactics that included using words racists use. And since racists still exist, that is very bad. Harmful for sure.)
Here is the pdf issue that has the Jazz conspiracy theory.
I have not read it yet, but somebody can bring it up in my new thread.
The cover has a white person (a Jewish man, I suppose) with "black-face" paint.
I suspect the "Jewish control"-angle was LaRouche's only intent, though the "black-face" paint will be seen - especially today - as an attack on black skin features.
I NEED TO CLARIFY SOMETHING (this is an edit)
The blackface was something that actually happened. It was a cover based on an actual act (it might have been a legit picture)
quote:George Gershwin ScoresWith "Do It Again"
It is Friday morning, November 2, 1923.The high society circlesin New York arebuzzing with excitement and exhilaration. Telegrams are flying back and forth between New York, Paris, and London with news of a major milestone in American music, definitely the latest thing in the area of culture and the artsin general. The night before in New York's Aeolian Hall, soprano EvaGauthier has done the unthinkable. In a major classical concert hall song recital, she has performed a selection of jazz songs, accompanied by their author, George Gershwin, at the piano, for an audience of elite society and musicians. The concert represents the fruition of two decades of effort on the part of these circles. The Gershwin songs have been programmed together with two groups of songs by modem composers, including those of B_la Bart6k, Paul Hindemith, Darius Milhaud, and the American premier of early songs by the Viennese composer Arnold Schoenberg, who was later to become the father of the musical psychosisknown asatonalism. However, it is the Gershwin songs which make the greatest impact. The selection includes the song "Swannee," which, sung in blackface by A1Jolson, had been Gershwin's first smash hit three years before. The Friday edition of the New York World carriesa rave review by Deems Tay!or, describing the event:
Mr. Gershwin began to do mysterious and fascinating rhythmic and contrapuntal stunts with the accompaniment .... The audience was as much fun to watch as the songs were to hear, for it began by being a trifle patronizing and ended by surrendering completely to the alluring rhythms of our own folk music .... It behaved exactly like any
6 September/October 1980/ CAMPAIGNER
audience at any musical show--which is to say that Miss Gauthier had to come back and sing Mr. Gershwin's incomparable " Even then her hearers were not satistied, and she had to do it again?
I just started to read the magazine.
I should also point out that the article attacks non-Jewish whites.
quote:THE BRITISH ORIGINS OF NAZI EUGENICS
Purported scientists, including Nobel Laureates, have begun reviving the hideous theory of the racial basis of intelligence--the theory that provided the rationale for the Nazi death camps. Today's race scientists, operating under the aegis of the international mental health organizations, draw their ideas from a long line of kooks and frauds, which has been sponsored, ironically, by the world's best argument against the practice of "breeding" human being: Britain's aristocratic blue-bloods.
He was Jewish, but here is another issue that might explain the N-word use by the publication (LaRouche was not involved in the magazine issue anyway, so this quote of a quote is not from LaRouche's pen)
I actually stopped quoting the magazine, earlier, right before the N-WORD came up again.
(this pasting caused words to be dropped, but read anyway to get the gist)
quote:Weeks before the concert, Carl van Vechten, who had brought Gershwin and Gauthier together to do the recital, carefully primed the , New York critics as to the correct interpretation of the significance of the concert. Van Vechten, author of the play Nigger Heaven, was a close friend of Harlem Renaissance matron Mabel Dodge, as well as of Dodge's Parisian prototype, Gertrude Stein. Writing to one critic, van Vechten had instructed:
I consider this one of the very most important events in American musical history, and it will lure me back to the concert hall, from which I have held aloof for two years.... Of course you could hardly complain that this music does not get a hearing, and a good hearing, too (I consider Paul Whiteman's orchestra about the bestin the world, and there are plenty of vaudeville singers who do these tunesjustice), but most seriousmusiciansin this country, although peffecdy willing to sing or play "The Old Folks At Home" or some early German or French folksong, seem to feel that "Alexander's Ragtime Band," "Ragging the Scale," "Waiting for the Robert E. Lee," "Swannee," "Running Wild," and other such songs, among the indubitable works of musical genius that this country has produced, are beneath contempt. This is not the opinion of Ravel, or of Stravinsky, orof the Six. One of the mostfamous of the Europeanmodems wires me impatiendy to send him all the new ones) Jazz in the concerthall--doingthe I suggest that we get up a torchlight procession, headed by Paul Whiteman and his orchestra,"to honor Miss Gauthier, the pioneer. Mind you, I prophesy that the Philharmonic will be doing it in two years?
The latter was no prophecy; the plan was already on the drawing board. Less than four months later, on the afternoon of Lincoln's birthday, February 12, 1924, an overflow audience was brought to Aeolian Hall to witness Gershwin's debut as a serious composer with the Paul Whiteman jazz band. Lincoln's Birthday had been chosen purposely for the occasion: the Whiteman-C-ershwin concert, which constituted the first all-jazz event in a major classical concert hall, was designed to signal the emancipation of jazz from its alleged origins in black chattel slavery and the abolitionist movement of the 19th century.
Here was something said later
quote:American popular music has been a nasty operation from its inception, was not unnoticed by the Specifically, we are going to show you how foremost musicologist of:
• the same circles which ran the institution of slavery in this country, as well as the slave trade itself, cultivated the most backward and superstitious elements of black culture under slavery through their sponsorship of the fundamentalist cults of the 18th and 19th centuries.
• these same circles, through the hideously racist "blackface" sadistically parodied the very image of blacks which they themselves had thus created, and America accepted this as entertainment
• the same circles then built a multimillion dollar entertainment yearbook funded by his industry upon this racist parody, for the purpose of disseminating an infantile and regressive moral outlook throughout the population as a whole
• based upon the success of this industry, new forms of music were have exchanged their created, also under a fraudulent black image, for the purpose of wealth of genius for jazz continuing that regressive process in the population at large to the and other exotic types with point of frank collective psychosis, with the moral wreckage...
The racist and anti-Semitic quote attributed to LaRouche - in Theodoric's source - was actually not from LaRouche.
I have not tracked down the spot in the magazine it was used, but considering the popular jazz-founders (in the 1920s) used the N-WORD in their titles, THAT MIGHT EXPLAIN WHY A RACIST QUOTE WAS USED DURING THE SAME DISCUSSION.
It was a quote plainly stated to be "racist" by the article author (who clearly did not agree with the concept behind the racist N-word, and did not feel Jewish individuals were part of any racist racial concept - for better or worse).
It was a use of irony, which is much more tolerable when one understands the context.
The performers who made Jazz popular were white Jewish folks who wore blackface and had shows called "N***** Heaven"
The New Republic (mainstream Democratic magazine)had pop theories similar to LaRouche
Straight from the horses mouth:
quote:Sometimes, The New Republic’s cluelessness about race was almost comic. A 1991 piece by David Samuels—under the headline “The ‘Black Music’ That Isn’t Either”—assured the magazine’s readers that rap music was neither black nor music, and would be a passing fad. “Whatever its continuing significance in the realm of racial politics, rap’s hour as innovative popular music has come and gone,” Samuels wrote. The issue’s cover showed a white teenager as “The Real Face of Rap.”
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity. In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
Mark Levin has been pointing this out, that the US isn't doing anything to express solidarity with the freedom fighters of Hong Kong when normally we would. Why isn't Trump speaking out for them? Why aren't others in the government doing so? Shouldn't there be a government resolution of some kind to declare our support? Why the silence? What can the rest of us do? Write our representatives I guess. Write Trump. If we don't stand behind them they are just going to be mowed down by the Chinese government whose illegal action is what prompted the protests in the first place. They may be mowed down anyway but it shouldn't be for lack of support from the rest of the world and particularly from the US.
He's got his priorities out of whack, but that doesn't mean we need to. We need to set a fire under him and under Congress and whatever else we can do. And let me add I think it's just from being preoccupied with his own strategies for dealing with China, not fully grasping the situation in Hong Kong and not from any lack of concern for them.
In my opinion Trump is preoccupied with his trade dealings with China and isn't giving the Hong Kong situation enough attention. One thing Trump is not is spineless, he's just focused on his way of dealing with things and to my mind neglecting something that's more important right now. He isn't totally neglecting it but he's got his own style of dealing with tyrants which in this case can be overlooking something that is crucially important.
As I see it anyway. Those people love America, they love us, they wave our flag and sing our anthem. Their freedoms are being threatened by the Chinese government.
My position is simple: I don't want them to feel we aren't listening and don't care, I want them to feel that we are with them, that we share their love of freedom and don't want to see them lose it. We should have protestors out in the streets supporting them. Our students should be out waving our flag in support of them. Hong Kong needs to hear us, Beijing needs to hear us. We are being too silent.