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Author Topic:   Police Shootings
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 240 of 670 (860160)
08-05-2019 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Hyroglyphx
08-05-2019 6:32 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
Hyroglyphx writes:
An event such as this is precisely why American law enforcement is armed and it is only because they were armed and ran towards the gunfire instead of away from it that the numbers were thankfully mitigated.
So you're trading one mass shooting for dozens of wrongful individual shootings by police. How does the body count balance?

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-05-2019 6:32 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-05-2019 7:01 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 242 of 670 (860239)
08-06-2019 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Hyroglyphx
08-05-2019 7:01 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
Hyroglyphx writes:
The same way you would for anything else... by analyzing on a case by case basis and tally up the amount of justified shootings with unjustified shootings.
Seriously? If there was one more death by unjustified cop-shooting than the number of deaths prevented by cops, you'd agree with disarming cops?

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-05-2019 7:01 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 245 of 670 (860747)
08-11-2019 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Hyroglyphx
08-11-2019 1:37 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
Hyroglyphx writes:
You could outlaw all guns tomorrow afternoon and offer this gun buy-back program, and you wouldn't even get rid of a fourth of the guns in the population.
So that busts the myth that most gun-owners are law-abiding.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-11-2019 1:37 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-11-2019 2:53 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 247 of 670 (860752)
08-11-2019 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by Hyroglyphx
08-11-2019 2:53 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
Hyroglyphx writes:
Cocaine was once legal... it was legally placed into products. Once it became illegal, they had to stop using it as an additive.
What has that got to do with what you said?
You said, "You could outlaw all guns tomorrow afternoon and offer this gun buy-back program, and you wouldn't even get rid of a fourth of the guns in the population." Doesn't that imply that gun owners would not give up their guns? That they would keep them illegally?

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-11-2019 2:53 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Phat, posted 08-11-2019 3:43 PM ringo has replied
 Message 249 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-11-2019 3:58 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 251 of 670 (860819)
08-12-2019 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by Phat
08-11-2019 3:43 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
Thugpreacha writes:
I think he means that there would always be a market...legally or illegally and that legislation alone wont stop the spread of or existence of guns.
That's what I said: The so-called "law-abiding" gun owners might not be so law-abiding if they didn't like the laws.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Phat, posted 08-11-2019 3:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 252 of 670 (860821)
08-12-2019 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Hyroglyphx
08-11-2019 3:58 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
Hyroglyphx writes:
You're placing the cart before the horse.
No, I'm predicting what will happen if you let go of the horse.
Hyroglyphx writes:
They won't care and they will view it as usurpation by a government inching towards tyranny.
So it's a basic disrespect for government and the rule of law.
Hyroglyphx writes:
So, sure, I guess they'll be illegal... and it won't stop them because they'll view it in righteous terms.
As I've always said, when guns are outlawed, it'll be easier to spot the outlaws.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-11-2019 3:58 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 254 of 670 (860865)
08-12-2019 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Hyroglyphx
08-12-2019 2:05 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
Hyroglyphx writes:
So instead of increasing police proficiency you'd rather police just be useless.
I find it odd that so many Americans don't like "government interference" in their lives but at the same time they're in favor of giving more power to the police.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-12-2019 2:05 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-12-2019 11:56 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 266 of 670 (860919)
08-13-2019 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by Hyroglyphx
08-12-2019 11:56 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
Hyroglyphx writes:
Police without guns is like firefighters without houses. It just doesn't make any sense.
That's obviously nonsense. Police in Britain don't have guns.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-12-2019 11:56 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-13-2019 12:23 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 268 of 670 (860922)
08-13-2019 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Hyroglyphx
08-13-2019 12:23 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
Hyroglyphx writes:
There's like 5 countries that doesn't have an armed police force, making GB way outside the norm.
"Outside the norm" is irrelevant. The fact is it can be done.
Edited by ringo, : Added quote.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-13-2019 12:23 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 301 of 670 (863397)
09-25-2019 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Hyroglyphx
09-25-2019 2:52 AM


Hyroglyphx writes:
Pacifism isn't the abrogation of violence... pacifism IS violence.
What a stupid thing to say.

Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2019 2:52 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 393 of 670 (868018)
12-06-2019 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by Percy
12-06-2019 12:12 PM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
Percy writes:
At least in this country, police are almost never prosecuted when they kill someone. That fact is why this thread exists.
I think you're weakening your case by nitpicking about an example where the shooting was clearly justifiable.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by Percy, posted 12-06-2019 12:12 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by Percy, posted 12-07-2019 9:28 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 405 of 670 (868101)
12-07-2019 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 402 by Percy
12-07-2019 9:28 AM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
Percy writes:
There's been no diminishment in the number of situations where the public believes police were justified in using lethal force.
To be clear, my stance is pretty simple: Where there is a clear and present danger, shoot to kill. A man with a suicide vest is a clear and present danger, period.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by Percy, posted 12-07-2019 9:28 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by Percy, posted 12-10-2019 5:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 426 of 670 (868383)
12-11-2019 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 422 by Percy
12-10-2019 5:22 PM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
Percy writes:
Did the police think he was wearing a suicide vest at the time they killed him?
There's no point in speculating about what they were thinking.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by Percy, posted 12-10-2019 5:22 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by Percy, posted 12-11-2019 7:58 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 446 of 670 (868440)
12-12-2019 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 435 by Percy
12-11-2019 7:58 PM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
Percy writes:
I was trying to remind you of a point I had made in earlier posts, that it is possible, since there's a news report that police shot the suspect in the chest and abdomen, that they did not think he was wearing a suicide vest.
Saying "it is possible" is speculating.
Percy writes:
I agree with you that a man with an actual for real suicide vest represents a grave danger, but whatever the suspect was wearing was not a vest (it could have been a belt) and was fake anyway.
But they didn't know it was a fake until after they subdued him.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Percy, posted 12-11-2019 7:58 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by Percy, posted 12-12-2019 12:53 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 455 of 670 (868501)
12-13-2019 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 448 by Percy
12-12-2019 12:53 PM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
Percy writes:
You said there was no point in speculating about what they were thinking, but their thinking isn't what I was speculating about. I was speculating about what they knew.
What they "knew" is the same as what they were thinking.
Percy writes:
If after subduing him they knew it was fake, why did they kill an unarmed man?
That's exactly the point. They didn't know the bomb was a fake until they subdued him. They subdued him by killing him.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 448 by Percy, posted 12-12-2019 12:53 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 463 by Percy, posted 12-14-2019 5:35 PM ringo has replied

  
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