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Author Topic:   More Right Wing terrorism in the US
PaulK
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Posts: 15552
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 121 of 150 (853532)
05-28-2019 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by foreveryoung
05-28-2019 2:51 PM


quote:

Here is terrorism....the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

I think that you will find that political aims - rather than the spreading of terror - is not essential.

quote:

Setting off bombs with no political purpose is not terrorism.

It is an excellent way of spreading terror, so I disagree.


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 Message 117 by foreveryoung, posted 05-28-2019 2:51 PM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15552
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 122 of 150 (853533)
05-28-2019 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by foreveryoung
05-28-2019 2:58 PM


quote:

Saying it is so doesnt make it so

But of course there is evidence. Breitbart cosying up to the “alt-right”. Laura Ingraham complaining about “demographic changes” on Fox News. Republicans in Congress objecting to investigation of far-right groups. Trump smearing Mexican immigrants - including legal immigrants - and getting cheered for it. And there is plenty more.

quote:

Deep seated hatred for right wingers does not make it any more true. You are just emptying your bile.

Or you are just lying to cover up the racism in the conservative camp.


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Faith
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Posts: 33645
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 123 of 150 (853534)
05-28-2019 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by foreveryoung
05-28-2019 2:41 PM


Racism is not a conservative cause. That's smearing a political group with false accusations.

Yes it is but good luck telling that truth to these rabid partisans. They've pushed me over the edge with their lles and slander until I can't take any more. But I'm glad someone else is willing to take up the cause.


This message is a reply to:
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foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 58 days)
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
Message 124 of 150 (853549)
05-28-2019 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Faith
05-28-2019 3:27 PM


I can only take small doses of it. I certainly could not read a full page or two. The hate and rhetorical deceit is beyond my capacity . I have to go for at least a week.

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 126 by PaulK, posted 05-28-2019 11:46 PM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
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Posts: 4731
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 125 of 150 (853557)
05-28-2019 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by foreveryoung
05-28-2019 5:55 PM


Yeah, it can be tough on your side of the fence. I sympathize.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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PaulK
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Posts: 15552
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 126 of 150 (853564)
05-28-2019 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by foreveryoung
05-28-2019 5:55 PM


quote:

I can only take small doses of it. I certainly could not read a full page or two. The hate and rhetorical deceit is beyond my capacity

Then perhaps you can explain why you feel required to feel such hate and engage in rhetorical deceit. I certainly couldn’t.


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 Message 127 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 9:33 PM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33645
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 127 of 150 (853638)
05-29-2019 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by PaulK
05-28-2019 11:46 PM


Then perhaps you can explain why you feel required to feel such **** and engage in rhetorical deceit. I certainly couldn’t.

But you are doing it right now. You're one of the worst.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by PaulK, posted 05-28-2019 11:46 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15552
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 128 of 150 (853640)
05-30-2019 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
05-29-2019 9:33 PM


Then why is there no real discussion from your side ?

A self-described conservative who ran a bombing campaign in a mainly black and Latino neighbourhood can’t be called a terrorist unless we can establish a political motive ? How is that anything more than a “rhetorical deceit” ?

Why are there no answers to my pointing out examples where racism is part and parcel of the “conservative” message (and history has plenty more) ? (It doesn’t have to be any more than fiscal responsibility has to be, but - too often - it is)


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JonF
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Posts: 5530
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 129 of 150 (853652)
05-30-2019 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by PaulK
05-30-2019 12:08 AM


This is much like her argument that "there is no right-wing violence" wherein she restricted the definition of "violence" so much that only the Charlottesville murder could fit it, and then she had only one incident to ignore.

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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6810
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.7


(3)
Message 130 of 150 (860945)
08-14-2019 10:26 AM


More on cult-based traitors who hate democracy
From The Guardian:

Revealed: Republican lawmaker aided group training young men for 'biblical warfare'

Once before I brought up on this thread Matt Shea, Washington state legislator who is warning his followers to prepare for a civil war against the godless hordes overrunning this country.

It appears that he is linked to a group giving paramilitary training to likeminded apocalyptic cultists.

In his email to Shea, Caughran goes on to list weapons training as part of the event for attendees. The training will "show them how to work better as a team, both in achieving physically demanding tasks and on the battlefield. Those who attend will learn combatives, the use of a knife in defense, close quarters shooting with rifle and pistol and how to work effectively in teams of 2, 3 and 4."

Longtime Shea critic, and Republican, the Spokane county sheriff, Ozzie Knezovich, said in a telephone conversation that "it almost sounds like going back to the Hitler Youth concept".

Knezovich added: "There are lines that should never crossed. When you indoctrinate children in radicalized hate, then we wonder why we have the kind of shootings and bombings that we have around the world."

Edited by Chiroptera, : D to d in title

Edited by Chiroptera, : Added additional quote.


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-14-2019 2:08 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5858
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 131 of 150 (860961)
08-14-2019 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Chiroptera
08-14-2019 10:26 AM


Re: More on cult-based traitors who hate democracy
Once before I brought up on this thread Matt Shea, Washington state legislator who is warning his followers to prepare for a civil war against the godless hordes overrunning this country.

It appears that he is linked to a group giving paramilitary training to likeminded apocalyptic cultists.

Sounds like the kind of asshole who rails against the scourge of Islamic terrorism while turning around and doing the very thing he claims to despise.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Chiroptera, posted 08-14-2019 10:26 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6810
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 132 of 150 (860968)
08-14-2019 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Hyroglyphx
08-14-2019 2:08 PM


Re: More on cult-based traitors who hate democracy
You're psychic!

From Wikipedia:

Shea organized the Spokane chapter of ACT! for America, an anti-Muslim organization designated as a hate group by Southern Poverty Law Center.

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

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 Message 131 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-14-2019 2:08 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6810
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 133 of 150 (861192)
08-18-2019 11:07 AM


Republicans and El Paso: It's the liberals' fault!
From the Tampa Bay Times:

Memo reveals a House Republican strategy on shootings: downplay white nationalism, blame left

The Republicans have been circulating talking points about how to respond to the El Paso shooting and the rise in white nationalist violence in general. The decision: try to focus on leftwing violence, and if that doesn't work then try to frame it allin the usual "both sides are the same" false equivalence.

"White nationalism and racism are pure evil and cannot be tolerated in any form," the document said. "We also can’t excuse violence from the left such as the El Paso shooter, the recent Colorado shooters, the Congressional baseball shooter, Congresswoman Giffords’ shooter and Antifa."

(Bolding is mine.)

How often do they need to claim the El Paso shooter was from the left before it becomes true? Fortunately, they were caught out before we could find out and now claim that the inclusion of the El Paso shooter was a mistake.

But the other items in the list are also problematic.

The Dayton Daily News reported that the shooter in Ohio had attended a protest of a Ku Klux Klan rally and other outlets have reported his political leanings aligned with Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, a Democratic Socialist. The motivations of the Dayton shooters killing spree, though, are less clear. He reportedly was obsessed with violence and once made a list of girls he wanted to kill. In the rampage, he fatally wounded his transgender brother, who was initially reported as his sister and who was not out to family, according to media outlets such as Splinter, BuzzFeed and the New York Post.

The GOP conference talking points ascribed other shootings as leftist violence despite ambiguous, if not contradictory, evidence. The shooter that wounded U.S. Rep. Gabby Giffords, a Democrat, was paranoid about government and obsessed with the Arizona Congresswoman, a law enforcement investigation found. His political persuasions were mixed and did not appear to be a factor. Nor does it seem that the May shooters at a Colorado high school — both teenagers and bullied students — were motivated by politics.

And, of course, the Republicans - our white nationalist party - ignore the proverbial 500 lb gorilla in the room:

The GOP’s response to elevate incidents of "violence on the left" clashes with a well-documented rise in hate crimes and white nationalism on the far-right.

Extremist-related murders have spiked in the last year, according to the Anti-Defamation League, and the vast majority — 73 percent — are committed by right-wing extremists and white supremacists. Not a single extremist-related murder in the United States last year was carried out by "the left."

(Thanks to Juanita Jean for the tip.)


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 08-18-2019 11:14 AM Chiroptera has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33645
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 134 of 150 (861194)
08-18-2019 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Chiroptera
08-18-2019 11:07 AM


Re: Republicans and El Paso: It's the liberals' fault!
I've heard it very explicitly acknowledged that the El Paso shooting was motivated by white nationalism so I don't get what you are hearing. Turning that into a rise in white nationalism, or linking all of us on the right with it is of course unwarranted. And of course I think that statistic is ridiculous.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Chiroptera, posted 08-18-2019 11:07 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Chiroptera, posted 08-18-2019 12:39 PM Faith has responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6810
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 135 of 150 (861203)
08-18-2019 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Faith
08-18-2019 11:14 AM


Re: Republicans and El Paso: It's the liberals' fault!
Hi, Faith.

...so I don't get what you are hearing.

I though I was clear on that. I linked to a newspaper article which I read. The reporters had a copy of a memo being circulated among Republicans in the US House of Representatives. That memo is quoted in the newspaper article.

I've heard it very explicitly acknowledged that the El Paso shooting was motivated by white nationalism....

There is a direct quote from the House Republicans' memo. Perhaps that was an "honest mistake", but, gee whiz, those Republicans sure make a lot of those. And I do think it's suspicious that this "mistake" comes in a document advocating the dishonest framing of an issue.

Turning that into a rise in white nationalism....

The rise in white nationalist violence is a documented fact. The article quotes both the Anti-Defamation League and the FBI.

...linking all of us on the right with it....

The link is with Congressional Republicans who have prevented US law enforcement from devoting necessary resources to combat white extremist violence while they are required to spend considerable resources on relatively lesser problems like Muslim violence or environmentalist extremists.

The link is the Congressional Republicans' attempt to confuse the issue by making the false claims that leftwing violence is comparable to rightwing violence.

The only link to "all of you on the right" would be the implied link where you keep voting for those clowns.


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 08-18-2019 11:14 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Faith, posted 08-18-2019 3:13 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
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