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Author Topic:   Chance as a sole-product of the Universe
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 256 of 263 (861585)
08-23-2019 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Thugpreacha
08-23-2019 12:14 PM


Re: Not A Chance
Phat writes:

Scripture tells us.


Scripture also tells us that God lied and the snake told the truth.

Phat writes:

There is no rational reason nor need for God to lie.


There is no rational reason for 66 books (chosen more-or-less arbitrarily) to agree 100% in every detail.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-23-2019 12:14 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 257 of 263 (861593)
08-23-2019 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Thugpreacha
08-23-2019 12:08 PM


Re: Not A Chance
Phat writes:

You say that God lied. I say that the answer surely *must* be deeper, since we already know that God cannot lie nor would have any need to lie.

Phat, stop continuously misrepresenting what I say.

It is not what I say, it is what is actually written in the Bible story. The Bible says God lied. The God character in the story says that the serpent told the truth.

You don't seem to like reality but that is what is actually written in the Bible.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-23-2019 12:08 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-23-2019 2:59 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12813
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 258 of 263 (861600)
08-23-2019 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by jar
08-23-2019 1:14 PM


Re: Not A Chance
Oh stop with your Faith display of Capital Letters! I was talking to ringo, who also buys that. And the serpant did not tell us the whole truth. We became "like God" or like one of us...only in that we became aware of the difference between good and evil. It is patently ridiculous for any created thing to become "like God". Even the serpent is a poor imitation. It is evident, however, that in today's world there are many imitative spirits, or vibes, or traits that mimic Jesus Christ yet are far from Him. God Himself may hollar from some mountain to stop misrepresenting Him. You, on the other hand, have no such authority.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by jar, posted 08-23-2019 1:14 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by jar, posted 08-23-2019 3:10 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 08-23-2019 5:29 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 263 by PaulK, posted 08-24-2019 5:51 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 259 of 263 (861603)
08-23-2019 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Thugpreacha
08-23-2019 2:59 PM


Re: Not A Chance
Phat writes:

Oh stop with your Faith display of Capital Letters!

Then stop lying about what I have said.

Phat writes:

And the serpant did not tell us the whole truth. We became "like God" or like one of us...only in that we became aware of the difference between good and evil.

Yet the story still says that the God lied and the serpent told the truth.

Phat writes:

It is patently ridiculous for any created thing to become "like God".

Perhaps it is beyond your imagination but the evidence shows it was not ridiculous to the author of the story.

Phat writes:

It is evident, however, that in today's world there are many imitative spirits, or vibes, or traits that mimic Jesus Christ yet are far from Him.

Yet no one ever presents evidence that supports such an assertion.

Phat writes:

God Himself may hollar from some mountain to stop misrepresenting Him. You, on the other hand, have no such authority.

Then when God does hollar from some mountain to stop misrepresenting Him I will be happy to discuss the issue with him.

But I do have the authority to continue to point out when you repeatedly misrepresent what I say.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-23-2019 2:59 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-23-2019 3:23 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12813
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 260 of 263 (861606)
08-23-2019 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by jar
08-23-2019 3:10 PM


Re: Not A Chance
But as I told you before and which is evident if you read who I was replying to, I was not even talking to or about you.

Add By Edit: Oops. I *was* talking to you. OK, I stand corrected.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by jar, posted 08-23-2019 3:10 PM jar has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 261 of 263 (861613)
08-23-2019 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Thugpreacha
08-23-2019 2:59 PM


Re: Not A Chance
Phat writes:

And the serpant did not tell us the whole truth.


That doesn't give your apologists licence to make up more "truth" to fill in the gaps.

Phat writes:

We became "like God" or like one of us...only in that we became aware of the difference between good and evil.


How is a raven like a writing desk? It only needs to be in one way. If "like" meant in every way, a raven would be a writing desk.

Phat writes:

It is patently ridiculous for any created thing to become "like God".


That's patently false. We were "created in His image" means exactly that we are like Him.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-23-2019 2:59 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Son Goku
Member
Posts: 1150
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 262 of 263 (861618)
08-23-2019 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by Tangle
08-22-2019 5:57 AM


Re: Not A Chance
In the standard (Copenhagen) reading of Quantum Theory what is occurring is that reality as it truly is cannot be imagined or conceived of by the human mind or modelled scientifically.

All we can do is arrange a situation where the fundamental "stuff" will leave a trace in our macroscopic world. This trace will always be comprehensible as a classical property since it will be evident in some device we use.

Thus the position and momentum referred to in Heisenberg's uncertainty principle are actually positions and momentum of the device, not the particle.

The uncertainty principle then shows you that these properties cannot be combined. The results you get from position measurements and momentum measurements do not sensibly combine. You can see a mark in a detector, then measure momentum and get "moving to the left" then measure position again and it is to the right of the original mark. This is to be expected though since position and momentum are not true properties of the microworld.

What quantum theory lets you do is predict the chance of the next mark/trace in a device given the input of a previous one you saw. That these are random is part and parcel of the fact that you don't have a theory of what is actually going on and never can have such a theory, since the true reality lies outside human conception.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Tangle, posted 08-22-2019 5:57 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15395
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 263 of 263 (861629)
08-24-2019 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by Thugpreacha
08-23-2019 2:59 PM


Re: Not A Chance
quote:
And the serpant did not tell us the whole truth. We became "like God" or like one of us...only in that we became aware of the difference between good and ****.

Which is what the serpent said. It is you who is not telling the whole truth by leaving that out.

Genesis 3:5

5 for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and ****."

(NRSV)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-23-2019 2:59 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    
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