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Author Topic:   The Dark Mountain Project: Secularism Gets Sober
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7614
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 2 of 27 (862023)
08-30-2019 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
08-30-2019 4:00 PM


Phat writes:

Now tell m,e that these authors are also nuts! If so, I would accuse you of being overly unrealistic and clinging to your own fragile belief in society.(without God)

Phat, human history is replete with human disasters some of which result in enormous world events like WWI and II. These things will continue to happen because it's in our nature. We're still evolved apes no matter how we subdue our instincts with civilising social mechanisms.

Civilisations rise and fall and will continue to do so, natural disasters will still happen, but the world is not about to end. We are making baby steps trying to control ourselves and our environment and have only just started.

And, btw, you are not the centre of the universe.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 08-30-2019 4:00 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 5:08 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7614
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 8 of 27 (862041)
08-30-2019 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by GDR
08-30-2019 5:08 PM


GDR writes:

This IMHO has nothing to do with any theology.

Correct.

Progress isn't always what it is cracked up to be.

Progress makes you possible. Without progress you almost certainly would have never existed but if you had you would have probably killed your mother in child birth and died of measles at the age of 5.

I'd suggest if the world as we know it comes to an end it will be done by ourselves and not by the hand of God.

Certainly correct. Though unlikely.

But you are conflating the world coming to an end with H. sapiens becoming extinct. It would be sad for us, but the universe would not even notice.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 5:08 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 6:47 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7614
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 14 of 27 (862065)
08-31-2019 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by GDR
08-30-2019 6:47 PM


GDR writes:

Sure, but it also has a dark side and maybe some day that dark side is going to overwhelm the positives. I hope and pray it doesn't.

I don't really know what you're complaining about here. It's human obtained progress that has allowed us to drag ourselves out of our caves and fight the crude animal side of our nature. We've been doing it for a very short period of time but come a very long way. There will be set backs, great societies will decline and new ones will fall but total extinction is unlikely.

As humans, we have no sense of perspective.

I'm not so sure what will happen to the universe if we aren't here to perceive it but I don't have the depth of knowledge to go further with that. (Actually, I'm not at all sure any of us do but me probably least of all. )

Absolutely nothing would happen to the universe is we were wiped off it totally. In time terms we've only been here for the blink of an eye anyway. It got on perfectly fine before us and will after us.

As humans, we have no sense of perspective.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 6:47 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 2:46 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7614
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 16 of 27 (862068)
08-31-2019 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by GDR
08-31-2019 2:46 AM


GDR writes:

Well, as I said I hope and pray that you are right.

I know you're sincere in that, but it would be far better if you'd do something that would actually help instead.

The countryside were I live is littered with ancient churches, I have three in my tiny village. They would have cost poor people an enormous amount in time, effort and money over a millennium to build and maintain and in the process built rich, powerful and divisive institutions that held back the progress of society.

If that effort had been put into building schools hospitals and our secular institutions for the good of the people instead of the worship of imaginary gods, our society would be in a far better state.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 2:46 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 10:23 AM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 08-31-2019 12:45 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7614
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 22 of 27 (862087)
08-31-2019 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by AZPaul3
08-31-2019 2:07 PM


Re: Putting God first before Self
Phat quotes this pile of steaming dung and writes:

“I marvel at a God who puts himself at our mercy, as it were, allowing himself to be quenched and grieved, and even forgotten. Reading the Old Testament convinces me that this human tendency-indifference taken to a lethal extreme-bothers God more than any other. Gracious to doubters and a pursuer of willful unbelievers, God finds himself stymied, and even enraged, by those who simply put him out of mind. God reacts like any spurned lover who finds his phone calls unreturned and his Valentines tossed aside unopened. (...)I used to jump out of bed as soon as I woke up. Now I lie there in the quiet and invite God into my day, not as a participant in my life or an item on a checklist but as the hub of all that will happen that day. I want God to become the central reality so that I am as aware of God as I am of my own moods and desires.”

What is this Phat? This idiot thinks he knows how god feels. Do you not see what delirious garbage this is?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by AZPaul3, posted 08-31-2019 2:07 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 08-31-2019 4:01 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7614
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(7)
Message 25 of 27 (862092)
08-31-2019 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
08-31-2019 4:01 PM


Re: Putting God first before Self
Phat writes:

Why should that bother you? You don't even believe that God exists.

It bothers me that you think it's normal and ok for people to tell other people that they know what god thinks and feels. It's dumb, crazy and delusional stuff.

A wrong answer is better than no answer at all.

That is just fucking stupid.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 08-31-2019 4:01 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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