Summations Only

Has anyone yet mentioned that the Governor and the Secretary of State of Hawaii checked the original records and verified Obama's birth certificate is genuine? How deep do bizarrely paranoid conservatives believe this "conspiracy" goes?

I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEE ANYTHING YOU SAY ABOUT A "BARBARITY." AS I SAID IF I HAVE NO INDEPENDENT KNOWLEDGE OF ANYTHING YOU BRING UP FORGET IT, I'M NOT GOING THERE.

Are they liberals?

The psychology of paranoia is against you, I’m afraid.There have been so many, many lies shovelled down the throats of the Republican voting base (not just by the politicians, but by the commentators and right wing conspiracy nuts), that I think that deep down, sub-consciously, they realise that to listen to even one fact, un-ravelling one lie, will threaten the entirety of the false narrative that has been constructed around them.Facts make sense to you and me, but they know that accepting even one fact which is contrary to the false narrative, will un-ravel the whole of their faux fabulous fantasy.(There’s a lot of f’s in that sentence, but fewer than there should be, for the benefit of our younger audience).

The lies being "shoveled down our throats" are coming from the Left, which makes suspiciousness of anything the Left says completely reasonable.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Answer one question for me.Do you think that Trump and those commentators you listen to have ever told you a single lie ?

No.Which isn't to say I assume everything they say is the truth, but I don't call people liars for getting minor facts wrong.

Why do you believe they have never told you a lie ?

how about major facts? When talking about hurricane Dorian Trump said he had never heard of a category 5 hurricane, when in fact this is the 4th one of his presidency. He has previously made the same claim. So is he a liar or an idiot?Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

https://tinyurl.com/o2da39The Kenyan side of the conversation is almost inaudible.

Yes, it is indeed a red flag being raised to warn us of this birther deception and how it masks conservative racism (you know, the subject of this topic).You might have been thinking of a red herring, which the questions we're raising definitely are not.However, your frantic attempts to distract and divert most definitely are red herrings.Edited by dwise1, : Grammatical Correction from "which the questions of we're raising definitely are not. "

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Nobody would bother making up something like his birthplace in Kenya, it would be too easy to check out, it was entirely because there was evidence for it.

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It’s an obvious choice and it has been checked out - and failed to meet the mark. And why would Hawaii be any harder to check out? The better evidence - the newspaper announcement and the birth certificate - are there. And, as we shall see the people who raised it aren’t big in checking and caring about the facts.

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His grandmother knew and said so but someone "reminded" her that she shouldn't admit to it.

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That is only your opinion.

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And all the ways this subject is dealt with add to the evidence. Oh she was really talking about the birth of her son. Give me a break, the woman is no idiot, she knows nobody wants to know about the birth of her son. Oh she didn't know what she was saying, oh it was a language problem, a translation problem.. All imply the grandmother wouldn't have known that it was her world-famous grandson that was being talked about. All this maneuvering is a tacit admissions that it was obvious that she had said he was born in Kenya so all this is a big scramble to rationalize it away, and the rationalizations are unbelievably transparent.

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But of course people do want to know about the father. She’s a more natural person to ask about the father, her son, rather than the grandson. You don’t even know exactly what she was asked, since she does not speak English. And even you insist that she made a mistake - why should she not mistake the question? Why should she not think it is about the birth of her son rather than the birth of a grandson thousands of miles away ?The flimsy piece of evidence you have may be reasonably interpreted in other ways. That isn’t evidence you’re right. That’s the obvious rationalisation here.

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And then we get the next layer of deception: EVEN IF HE WAS BORN IN KENYA (oh really?) it wouldn't have been unconstitutional (then why make such a big deal out of denying it?), or what about Ted Cruz?. That one is a real red flag, practically an admission that you now that Obama was born in Kenya, if you want to make an issue of another candidate's similar circumstances.

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Of course it isn’t. It might be if it was raised instead of dealing with the evidence, but it isn’t. It’s just proof of how little the people who raise the claim care about the facts. There’s a solid case that an important Republican candidate would be disqualified by their erroneous standards? They don’t care.

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All these excuses and changes of subject are evidence in themselves that the evidence is strong for a Kenyan birth place.

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Now there is a truly pathetic excuse. If you had strong evidence you would be talking about that. Instead you try to infer it from the fact that people are making broader points as well as answering your claims.

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And I recall the birth certificate having something obviously wrong with it, something like different kinds of typing on it or an odd way the name was written or something like that. My own certificate has very consistent wording and typing, but his doesn't.

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Show us. And show us genuine birth certificates from Hawaii from the same time. Different States do do things differently, and even the same State may do things differently over time.

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My guess would be that someone made a choice not to pursue the evidence and just let the deception stand.

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It would be the people making the claims of deception that would be doing that. Why would they refuse to pursue their claims ?

Yeah, your fantasies are much more important than reality and TRUTH. Check the ultra right wing link.DHS Will Restart Process for Sick Illegal Aliens to Get Health CareThat’s not independent?KILL KILL KILL THE KIDS!

But you guys never check anything out.

As JonF points out in Message 684, you are describing President Obama there.But instead with Trump, in Message 651 you painted a picture of him being so unable to cope that he cannot get any work done. And even Trump has complained that he cannot work as long as anyone (eg, the press) criticizes him.So which is it? Does all this criticism and attempts to investigate (which is Congress' job and which Trump is obstructing) is keeping Trump from being able to function, in which case Trump is not fit for the job. Or is Trump able to "perform his duties just fine despite ... ", in which case your whining about how he's being treated is meaningless.Which is it? Because you cannot have it both ways. Get your stories straight!