An excellent Apologetics Lecture

History Phat. History. Forget the Dogma and look at the facts.Israel was rebellious in the eyes of Judah. Two Jewish Proto-States with entirely different ideas of what God was and what God wanted.Learn to actually read what is written in the Bible stories and ignore what the Snake-oil Salesmen claim should have been written.The Old Testament is filled with actual information if you will read it honestly.It begins with two entirely different Gods that reflect how the people of two different eras imagined God. Understand the evolution and changes both in what God was imagined to be but also the evolution and changes in the society over time. If you look you will see that it all starts with a band of peoples who worship different deities that over time evolve into separate and often fighting tribes that then combine into the beginnings of statehood but in to dramatically different directions, one a Theocracy and the other form a Monarchy.Look at the Gods that are created. The God of Exodus can never be described as moral. The God of Genesis 1 is ammoral and totally uninvolved beyond the initial act of creation; the potter who creates a vase then walks away from it never looking back. The God of Genesis 2&3 is very human; fearful, capricious, not totally honest but also forgiving and involved.Read the Bible and pay attention to what is actually written instead of the wonders claimed to be in the bottle.Edited by jar, : what is teh

Did the authors at the time write what is included in the stories? If so, they wrote about the God they imagined. No Phat, stop saying really stupid shit. I see what the authors of the time wrote. I am not talking about our culture but what the authors wrote. Stop saying shit Phat. My guns are not meant to protect society. Read what was actually written. It's called the Bible Phat and it is actually there so you can read it. My answer is as always the same; instead of just accepting what the Apologists market, read what is actually written.And getting saved is just another utterly made up snake-oil. NO ONE knows whether or not they are or will be saved until after they are dead and judged. But the conmen love selling SALVATION. It's profitable and carries no product liability risk.

Tangle covered that just above. LOL. What works Phat? That's the problem. What works differentiate a "Christian Believer" from the rest of the general population or a "Muslim Believer"? Apologists are not Christianity. Apologists claims should be tested just as the products of any other salesman or for that matter anything I post.If you test what the apologists say against what is actually written it shows an almost universal trait of quote mining, taking things out of context, misrepresentation and misdirection at best. In far too many cases what is shown is just plain outright deceit.For a decade an a half now you and I have been holding the same conversation.Does the apologist tell you to doubt what he is saying and to go test what he is saying against the evidence?Do I tell you to doubt what I am saying and to go test what I am saying against the evidence?What does the evidence show?And there are apologist that are part of the same chapter of Club Christian as me; NT Wright is one. Do I agree with everything NT Wright publishes or pronounces? Nope. Do I think he is a snake-oil salesman? Jury is out BUT at least NT Wright tells folk to check the evidence and to look at the evidence through the eyes of that era, location and mythos.