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Author | Topic: An excellent Apologetics Lecture | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member Posts: 33256 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
History Phat. History. Forget the Dogma and look at the facts. Israel was rebellious in the eyes of Judah. Two Jewish Proto-States with entirely different ideas of what God was and what God wanted. Learn to actually read what is written in the Bible stories and ignore what the Snake-oil Salesmen claim should have been written. The Old Testament is filled with actual information if you will read it honestly. It begins with two entirely different Gods that reflect how the people of two different eras imagined God. Understand the evolution and changes both in what God was imagined to be but also the evolution and changes in the society over time. If you look you will see that it all starts with a band of peoples who worship different deities that over time evolve into separate and often fighting tribes that then combine into the beginnings of statehood but in to dramatically different directions, one a Theocracy and the other form a Monarchy. Look at the Gods that are created. The God of Exodus can never be described as moral. The God of Genesis 1 is ammoral and totally uninvolved beyond the initial act of creation; the potter who creates a vase then walks away from it never looking back. The God of Genesis 2&3 is very human; fearful, capricious, not totally honest but also forgiving and involved. Read the Bible and pay attention to what is actually written instead of the wonders claimed to be in the bottle. Edited by jar, : what is teh
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Phat Member Posts: 15104 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Interesting. According to Wiki,
And to be fair, I see great hypocrisy in many apologists. I studied Matt Slick as he debated Matt Dillahunty. Dillahunty is much more preferable of a teacher despite the fact that he is an atheist. Slick is pompous, overbearing, and full of hot air. And I know that you will again accuse me of misrepresenting you as if you are the Lord and Master of framing the issue. Tell me now where I am wrong. I await your response breathlessly and full of anticipation. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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ringo Member Posts: 18930 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 4.0 |
Just about every religion teaches that the other guy's god is made up. You beleve that Zeus and Thor are made up, don't you?
Still waiting for you to show us one who isn't. “Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.” -- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves
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jar Member Posts: 33256 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
Did the authors at the time write what is included in the stories? If so, they wrote about the God they imagined.
No Phat, stop saying really stupid shit. I see what the authors of the time wrote. I am not talking about our culture but what the authors wrote.
Stop saying shit Phat. My guns are not meant to protect society. Read what was actually written. It's called the Bible Phat and it is actually there so you can read it.
My answer is as always the same; instead of just accepting what the Apologists market, read what is actually written. And getting saved is just another utterly made up snake-oil. NO ONE knows whether or not they are or will be saved until after they are dead and judged. But the conmen love selling SALVATION. It's profitable and carries no product liability risk.
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Phat Member Posts: 15104 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar may claim that the evidence shows that the God(s) of the Bible were themselves human constructs...in that, we have no way of showing the evidence of GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen nor of His Son, (His character) anthropomorphized as human. Another reasonable argument, yet one rejected by most who claim to be believers. Hence again the appeal to popularity. Whether God exists outside the human mind, which I believe He does or is simply a product of the human mind individually and collectively will likely never be objectively proven. Unless such a Creator wanted it known at some point. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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Phat Member Posts: 15104 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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Tangle Member Posts: 8089 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
How come there are so many suicide bombers? How come there are so many mental illnesses? How come there are so many crazy sects willing to think and believe all sorts of batshit crazy things? How come Mormons, Scientologists, dowsers, Hindus, astrologers? It's your mind Phat, it can do powerful things to you. Do voluntary work in a mental hospital for a few months - you'll see that people can sincerely believe absolutely anything. Nothing can change a Napoleon of Jesus's mind that they're delusional.
No, just the way our brains are wired. You would not believe what you believe now had you been born to Hindu parents. We learn beliefs, we are programmed to believe them - some peoplemore than others. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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jar Member Posts: 33256 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
Tangle covered that just above.
LOL. What works Phat? That's the problem. What works differentiate a "Christian Believer" from the rest of the general population or a "Muslim Believer"?
Apologists are not Christianity. Apologists claims should be tested just as the products of any other salesman or for that matter anything I post. If you test what the apologists say against what is actually written it shows an almost universal trait of quote mining, taking things out of context, misrepresentation and misdirection at best. In far too many cases what is shown is just plain outright deceit. For a decade an a half now you and I have been holding the same conversation. Does the apologist tell you to doubt what he is saying and to go test what he is saying against the evidence? Do I tell you to doubt what I am saying and to go test what I am saying against the evidence? What does the evidence show? And there are apologist that are part of the same chapter of Club Christian as me; NT Wright is one. Do I agree with everything NT Wright publishes or pronounces? Nope. Do I think he is a snake-oil salesman? Jury is out BUT at least NT Wright tells folk to check the evidence and to look at the evidence through the eyes of that era, location and mythos.
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ringo Member Posts: 18930 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 4.0 |
Then Islam, Roman Catholicism and Hinduism would all win out over Protestantism.
That doen't help you. They could say the same about your God - and the claim would be supported by your own scriptures. “Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.” -- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves
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PaulK Member Posts: 16766 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
It’s funny how you haven’t produced anything at all good from any of these videos or podcasts.
If they had any good points why not discuss them ?
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