2019 Labor Pains

That "outburst of sanity" may prove to be something else, since shooters tend to choose gun-free zones for their murder sprees because they know they will not encounter opposition there. Well, wait and see.

The Walmart in El Paso was not a gun free zone. The streets of Odessa and Midland, TX are not gun free zones. There were many armed law enforcement officers in Gilroy, CA. Dayton, OH is not a gun free zone.

Again you are wrong.

since shooters tend to choose gun-free zones for their murder sprees because they know they will not encounter opposition there.

The evidence shows that this is not true.

Edited by Theodoric, : in not is

Yet Walmart will not be a gun free zone in most cases. Walmart can post such signs and in states where they carry the force of law it might become a gun free zone, but so far Walmart has only asked folk to not carry a gun openly in their stores. Most of us licensed to carry guns have always respected even the requests not to carry guns in places where the company has a policy against such practices.

But again, that would only have any effect if people actually obeyed both the laws and requests.

Not sure what the point of your comment is. I was pointing out to Faith that her assertion that mass shooters pick gun free zones is not true.

Whether people follow Walmart requests in the future is irrelevant to this discussion.

I think its simply a ploy to reduce any subsequent liability. Here in Denver, Soopers used to have security who carried guns but they stopped that practice. Nobody can thus say in the event of an incident that the company provoked the escalated violence.

Safeway is even worse with security, often having no guards and allowing nearly $1500.00 a day of product to go out the door via theft. Evidently they have become fearful of lawsuits, little realizing that 1 out of 10 people steal and that word gets around on the street if you (as a business) are an easy mark.

Personally I think it is cowardly and deplorable not to fight theft. God tells me to pray for these thieves, but if I had it my own fleshly way I would get security to prosecute most of them. People need to be taught to obey the laws of society rather than flaunting their addiction and hurting the jobs of others.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Phat writes: Soopers used to have security who carried guns....

Yikes.

You would be amazed at what we see. We have "regular" shoplifters. They bring large bags into the store with them and fill them surreptitiously with the product before nonchalantly (often brazenly) walking out. They know that Safeway has decided not to hire security who will actively attempt to stop them nor will any cameras be monitored---beyond insurance against slip & fall liabilities.

Phat writes: You would be amazed at what we see.

I wouldn't

We have "regular" shoplifters.

Every shop has.

They bring large bags into the store with them and fill them surreptitiously with the product before nonchalantly (often brazenly) walking out. They know that Safeway has decided not to hire security who will actively attempt to stop them nor will any cameras be monitored---beyond insurance against slip & fall liabilities.

They're almost always drug addicts aren't they?

Phat writes: We have "regular" shoplifters.

I was responding to your line, "Soopers used to have security who carried guns...." (Message 20). I quoted it.

Do you propose shooting shoplifters?

I dream of zapping them with a tranquilizer dart!

Seriously though, I simply hate the justification I would imagine that they have for taking stuff. In my mind, it's personal. Once, one of our employees "caught" some guy in the act...he was leaving with his duffel bag stuffed full. He had dumped the load in the backseat of his car and was coming back in...empty bag in tow. When confronted, the man replied indignantly, "You are not God. What gives *you* the right to judge me?" Of course, the employee was only sitting outside on break...but this man had been spotted numerous times by many. Our own security warns us, though...that these people can sue the store for harassment if confronted. Nobody actually is allowed to stop them.

I think its unfair to the max. I pray for God to correct this unfairness in society.

My motto is this: If I can't get something free, then nobody else should get it either. Stealing is not only unbiblical...it breaks the unwritten rules. Its like cutting in the lunch line.

Phat writes: Stealing is not only unbiblical...

So is making people so poor that they feel they have to steal.

Phat writes: Its like cutting in the lunch line.

Maybe the priority of the lunch line should be based on who's the hungriest.

Tangle writes: They're almost always drug addicts aren't they?

Many of the worst ones are...but shoplifters can literally be anybody. There is no certain stereotype. One clue, however, is large bags or purses being carried into the store. This is how they are able to get us for such large amounts. It frustrates all of we employees, however...as we see money lost out the door as impacting our own hours.

...So is making people so poor that they feel they have to steal.

Now don't turn this into some rallying cry of justification by the liberals. Thou shalt not steal. Love thy neighbor, don't demand stuff from him.

They see my employer as a nameless faceless corporation and thus feel no remorse evening the social odds...whereas I and many other employees see it as ultimately taking from us. I will give spare change but I'll be damned if someone tries to pick my pocket.

Maybe the priority of the lunch line should be based on who's the hungriest.

Distribution should always be willingly...never mandatorily. I realize that this is a social and political issue and I can empathize with the other side....I feel more akin to the business owners than to the homeless though God is changing my heart in this issue. Would you help some man who you just caught climbing out of your window with an armful of your stuff?

Phat writes: Love thy neighbor, don't demand stuff from him.

Ask and ye shall receive.

Phat writes: They see my employer as a nameless faceless corporation and thus feel no remorse evening the social odds...

And you see them as faceless bad guys.

Phat writes: Distribution should always be willingly...never mandatorily.

According to Jesus, it's mandatory for you to be willing.

Phat writes: Would you help some man who you just caught climbing out of your window with an armful of your stuff?

The only thing I have that's worth stealing is my jar of spare change. Maybe he's just saving me a trip downtown.

Personally I think it is cowardly and deplorable not to fight theft. God tells me to pray for these thieves, but if I had it my own fleshly way I would get security to prosecute most of them. People need to be taught to obey the laws of society rather than flaunting their addiction and hurting the jobs of others.

I'm not sure about Colorado but in Texas the level of offense is based on pecuniary loss... the greater the dollar amount, the higher the charge. But it also has a stipulation that for any theft after two previous theft convictions, even if all you stole was a stick of bubble gum, its an automatic felony. If you don't offer real consequences there will never be any appreciable change. While I think its certainly a bridge too far, there's a reason why China has a low crime rate - because the consequences are often grave. Again, I'm not suggesting we start adopting medieval punishment but there simply has to be offered a reasonable deterrence. All human beings are motivated both by incentives and disincentives.

But even Texas stops at a State Jail Felony (4th degree). I think it should just continue on and on... play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If you can't figure out that you should probably stop stealing shit after 4 convictions, then it goes to show that lax laws encourage criminality. What good is a law without effective enforcement?

As to the businesses that choose not to prosecute, let them. Its their right. But their customers should know that every dollar that is stolen in merchandise gets shifted on to the consumer via higher prices. And if Safeway, or whoever, decides to not makes a reasonable attempt, then boycott them into submission and take your business elsewhere.