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Author Topic:   Conversion "Therapy" -- torture the gay away ...?
Posts: 3944
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.3

Message 4 of 10 (862443)
09-05-2019 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
09-04-2019 4:57 PM

RAZD writes:

Back in 1999, Game, 51, started Truth Ministry, a faith-based conversion therapy program in South Carolina, which aims to suppress or completely change a person’s LGBTQ+ sexuality through counseling, interventions, or ministry. The organization was eventually rebranded and renamed as Hope for Wholeness in 2013.

No respect, and lots of anger towards the man at that stage in his life.

“I struggled more so trying to deny [my attraction to men] than being able to accept my attractions and say, ‘I am a gay man,'” he said in a recent interview with the Post and Courier. “I was a hot mess for 26 years and I have more peace now than I ever did.”

... I believe ex-gay ministry is a lie; conversion therapy is not just a lie, it’s very harmful,” he continued. “[Especially] when it takes it to the point of, ‘You need to change and here’s a curriculum, here’s how you do it, and you haven’t changed yet, keep at it, it’ll happen.'”

“I was a religious zealot that hurt people,” Game explained to the outlet. “People said they attempted suicide over me and the things I said to them. People, I know, are in therapy because of me. Why would I want that to continue?”

“So much of it is trying to change people and fix people. It’s a lie and we have harmed generations of people,” he said. “We’ve done wrong, we need to admit our wrongs, and do what we can do to stop the wrong from continuing to happen.”

That's incredible, really.
The turn around is extreme.

If genuine - I have huge respect and admiration for the courage this man is now showing.
Not many people are capable of following love through to make such a change to personal opinion and actions.

It is so extreme, it kind of raises suspicions of "how genuine" - but that is between Game and himself.
If his words and actions continue to follow this new path - I will have nothing but support and admiration for such a model human being.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 09-04-2019 4:57 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 09-06-2019 9:28 AM Stile has responded

Posts: 3944
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.3

Message 6 of 10 (862538)
09-06-2019 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
09-06-2019 9:28 AM

Re: atonement needed, maybe prosecution
RAZD writes:

It's nice that he wants to stop this horrid process now, but what I want to know is how he will atone for the deaths and misery he has caused...

Fair enough.
Me, personally, I don't care much for judgements of "atonement" - too subjective and personally-made-up, to me.
That is - perhaps there is something I would consider is good enough "atonement" for him to do.
Perhaps you don't agree, and think he should do something else.
Perhaps others disagree with both of us and think he should do other things still...

To me, there is no acceptable path for you and I and "others" to feel okay with his past.
I never will.
I will continue to condemn his past forever.

But I won't let that stop me from allowing him to move forward - as long as his "moving forward" doesn't involve hurting others.

...not just to the people he "counseled" but to their families and friends? How will he stop others from continuing this horrid process?

I think putting such a thing on his shoulders alone is a bit much.

I think it would be better to ask: How will we all stop others from continuing this horrid process?
To think that one man should be responsible for stopping such a thing sends the wrong message. (In my opinion.)

What will he do to contribute?
Again - I don't really care to identify specifics. As long as he stops contributing in the opposite direction - the rest is up to all of us - equally.
And him coming out and saying the things he's said - that's more power and has done more "to stop this" than I have ever done in my life. Therefore - he's already ahead of me.

If he is the cause of suicides, then isn't there some legal issue here: there is a case in the news where a girl goaded a boy to suicide, and she is being prosecuted ...

I am not against legal action against the man in any way.
If there's a case, I think it should be pursued. In that sense - I support legal action against him.

We are all responsible for our actions and how they effect others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 09-06-2019 9:28 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by RAZD, posted 09-07-2019 8:34 AM Stile has responded

Posts: 3944
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.3

Message 10 of 10 (862647)
09-09-2019 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by RAZD
09-07-2019 8:34 AM

Re: atonement needed, maybe prosecution
RAZD writes:

It's a start.

I agree. It's the start of saying "this guy should do something about it!" instead of saying "we should all do something about it!"

Why shouldn't all of us participate in the prevention of such evil?

RAZD writes:

Personally I think this abuse of children is as horrific as the priest molestation issue, hushed up by churches and complicit parents and congregations that want to believe two false beliefs:

  1. that homosexuality is bad, "unnatural," and
  2. that it can be "cured" (or at least hidden back in the closets)

We know it is "natural" because other species show similar behavior ... the definition of natural: behavior found in nature.
We also know that your sexual identity is in your genetic/development bones, that there are zero incidents of it being "cured" by any means.

I completely agree.

But that path is not his alone to make

His path moving forward is always his alone to make. As it is for each and every one of us.
You cannot change this for him anymore than you can change it for yourself.

there are parents and families and friends - the collateral damage - caused by his tormenting these children sent to him at his solicitation.

Of course.
Again - why should "he" do something about this instead of "we?"
Why not "we?"

Parents and families of suicide victims could sue him and the others he worked with in court. This would make the issue more public, and likely bring out instances of more victims.

Sounds like a great idea to me - as long as those parents and families of suicide victims are willing.

But he created the problem in the first place, his effort "to stop this" is only part of undoing (if that is possible now) what he has done.

Of course - which is why parents and families of suicide victims should sue him.
This is not a reason, however, why you and I should not do anything and leave it up to him to correct things.
This is not a reason why "he should do more!" instead of "we should do more!"

You haven't robbed a bank either, so you aren't responsible for bank robbery and don't have to atone for it. You're further ahead from the start.

And yet, I still think I should participate in protecting banks from being robbed.
I don't think it we should focus on only saying ex-bank-robbers should prevent such things.

And we are responsible as a society for dealing appropriately with those who misbehave, and for taking care of the victims of misbehavior. That's why we have laws against abuse and discrimination, laws to enforce or modify when necessary to reflect our social morality.

I agree.
That's all I'm saying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by RAZD, posted 09-07-2019 8:34 AM RAZD has not yet responded

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