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Author Topic:   2019 Labor Pains
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 3 of 53 (849000)
02-20-2019 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
02-18-2019 6:10 PM


Phat writes:

Our proposals seem reasonable...


Some of them should have been mandated by government decades ago.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 02-18-2019 6:10 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 03-15-2019 4:19 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 04-09-2019 9:16 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 13 of 53 (850495)
04-09-2019 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
04-09-2019 9:16 AM


"Make the Company Keep Your Workplace Safe," jumps out.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 04-09-2019 9:16 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 21 of 53 (862634)
09-08-2019 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
09-08-2019 11:28 AM


Re: Soopers Goes Gunless
Phat writes:

Soopers used to have security who carried guns....


Yikes.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 09-08-2019 11:28 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 09-09-2019 4:13 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 24 of 53 (862687)
09-10-2019 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
09-09-2019 4:13 PM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
Phat writes:

We have "regular" shoplifters.


I was responding to your line, "Soopers used to have security who carried guns...." (Message 20). I quoted it.

Do you propose shooting shoplifters?


“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 09-09-2019 4:13 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Phat, posted 09-10-2019 12:21 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 26 of 53 (862691)
09-10-2019 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Phat
09-10-2019 12:21 PM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
Phat writes:

Stealing is not only unbiblical...


So is making people so poor that they feel they have to steal.

Phat writes:

Its like cutting in the lunch line.


Maybe the priority of the lunch line should be based on who's the hungriest.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Phat, posted 09-10-2019 12:21 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 09-10-2019 12:39 PM ringo has responded
 Message 31 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2019 1:23 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 29 of 53 (862694)
09-10-2019 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
09-10-2019 12:39 PM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
Phat writes:

Love thy neighbor, don't demand stuff from him.


Ask and ye shall receive.

Phat writes:

They see my employer as a nameless faceless corporation and thus feel no remorse evening the social odds...


And you see them as faceless bad guys.

Phat writes:

Distribution should always be willingly...never mandatorily.


According to Jesus, it's mandatory for you to be willing.

Phat writes:

Would you help some man who you just caught climbing out of your window with an armful of your stuff?


The only thing I have that's worth stealing is my jar of spare change. Maybe he's just saving me a trip downtown.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 09-10-2019 12:39 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 09-11-2019 3:03 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 36 of 53 (862726)
09-11-2019 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Hyroglyphx
09-11-2019 1:23 AM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
Hyroglyphx writes:

Theft isn't synonymous with poverty.


I didn't say it is. But there is a correlation between poverty and crime.

Hyroglyphx writes:

... go to any store in America or Canada and see what kind of haul they usually get. Hint: Not bread, not formula for their starving infant.


The workers don't get paid in food either.

Hyroglyphx writes:

...maybe the priority should be first come, first serve.


Grab all you can? Yeah, that was how it worked until we invented the rule of law.

Hyroglyphx writes:

But, hey, to each according to their want, am I right?


No, you're wrong. It's to each according to his need. A society that can't provide for the needs of its most needy is a worthless society.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2019 1:23 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2019 6:09 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 37 of 53 (862727)
09-11-2019 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
09-11-2019 3:03 AM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
Phat writes:

keep in mind that while on the clock, I represent my employer and not myself.


And yet your attitude toward theft is harsher than your employer's.

Phat writes:

I seriously doubt that God is telling these people that it's ok to steal.


Nobody is saying it's okay to steal. I was replying to your, "Love thy neighbor, don't demand stuff from him." (Message 28) I'm saying if he asks, you should give.

Phat writes:

I can't very well hand out spare change while I am on the clock since all of the spare change belongs to Safeway unless we are on break or lunch.


Nobody's asking you to hand out Safeway's spare change, just your own. And while you're on the clock, you could try just being a little compassionate instead of vindictive.

Phat writes:

when on the clock, we render unto Caesar(Safeway) what is Caesars and to God (and others) what is Gods.


Yes, you render unto Safeway what belongs to Safeway but what does Safeway render unto you and its customers and the community that supports it?

Phat writes:

The poor you(we) shall always have with us.


As I've told you before, that is not an excuse for ignoring the poor. If anything, it's an indictment of our society.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 09-11-2019 3:03 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 39 of 53 (862732)
09-11-2019 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Hyroglyphx
09-11-2019 6:09 PM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
Hyroglyphx writes:

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?


The egg. Did you think it was a difficult question?

Clearly, poverty came before crime. Poverty is a natural form of population control in most species. Crime, on the other hand, is strictly a social construct. Who "owns" what is arbitrary.

Hyroglyphx writes:

ringo writes:

The workers don't get paid in food either.


Meaning?

What people steal is just a medium of exchange. They don't steal cosmetics because they want cosmetics. They steal what's valuable and portable. They exchange it for what they need, whether that's food or drugs.

Hyroglyphx writes:

You insinuated that people grab all they can because of this terrible system of oppression that all but forces them to.


And you insinuated that the pushing to the front of the line is a good thing.

Hyroglyphx writes:

No, a society that thinks it should be spoon-fed from cradle to grave is a worthless society.


And nobody is advocating any such thing. "Society" includes both those who are fed and those who feed, so your fantasy is meaningless.

I repeat: A society that can not take care of its weakest members - the children, the sick, the poor, the disabled, the aged, etc. - is worthless.


“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-11-2019 6:09 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 09-11-2019 7:20 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 09-12-2019 1:50 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 47 of 53 (862797)
09-13-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
09-12-2019 1:50 PM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
Phat writes:

And the fact remains that they are breaking a consensual rule, whether they can justify breaking it or not.


I haven't said anything about justifying theft. I'm suggesting that you try to understand it. You'll never solve the problem by dehumanizing the thieves.

Or maybe you really don't want to solve the problem. Maybe you'd rather try to preserve the myth of "the Fall".

Phat writes:

Don't think for a minute that they steal with Gods blessing.


You should think about it, for a lot longer than a minute.

Phat writes:

And that should be on the individual conscience...never only mandated by the government.


As I have said, it was mandated by Jesus. You are mandated to be willing.

Phat writes:

If government is to mandate societal giving, they need to also mandate punishment for theft of any kind.


Non sequitur. If the churches were doing what they're supposed to do for the poor, the government wouldn't have to help them at all. And if somebody was doing enough for the poor, there would be a lot less crime.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 09-12-2019 1:50 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 48 of 53 (862799)
09-13-2019 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
09-12-2019 5:10 PM


Re: Who is "the Government"
Phat writes:

I am mainly addressing ringo, who thinks that there is no god and thus secular government(note he is an atheist) in its purest form should do Gods work---no god needed.


You keep saying that and I keep correcting you. God is not doing His work. For practical purposes - e.g. helping the hungry and sick - there is no God. We have to do the work if it's going to get done. It would be nice if there was a God doing it for us but there isn't.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 09-12-2019 5:10 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 09-13-2019 12:04 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18132
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 51 of 53 (862828)
09-13-2019 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
09-13-2019 5:07 PM


Re: So What To Do?
Phat writes:

But when you work for Caesar, you don't let Caesars food fall to thieves....even hungry ones.


You don't work for Caesar.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 09-13-2019 5:07 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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