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Author Topic:   2019 Labor Pains
Phat
Member
Posts: 18343
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 35 of 53 (862717)
09-11-2019 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by dwise1
09-11-2019 3:05 AM


Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
dwise1 writes:
Sometimes I need to enter a store carrying a bag of something I bought from another store. Before I enter the second store, I tie the bag shut (think old-style plastic bags) to make it obvious that I could not simply drop something into it.
And this is what many people also do. Though we all "observe" them surreptitiously we (at least I) don't infer that they are shoplifters simply because they "look the part". It has been an experience in human nature training for me. Time after time, I see men with bulging backpacks and women with bulging purses exit the store, often hurriedly, without purchasing anything. Nothing unusual in and of itself....these days many people have backpacks...and large bulging purses on their person. It is an area of town near the central thoroughfare that used to be the old 40 highway...business loop 70, now known as Colfax. There is a substantial number of homeless people in the area and some of them carry literally everything that they own to their name. There are several times when a situation becomes "obvious", however. As Hyroglyphix suggests, most of these people congregate in the Health & Beauty section of the store and look to buy something there...often spending a fair amount of time browsing yet leaving the store without checking out...indicating that they either couldn't find what they wanted or....(not accusingly) that they *did*. I prayed about it. Every day before work, I say a prayer on the way to work thanking God for another day at my job, asking to allow His Spirit to help me fulfill my purpose and destiny in life, and that our store (and our lives...you never know in this age of mass shootings) be protected by His presence. For many months, I prayed more leaning towards protecting us, our jobs, and "our" store. Lately, I have been praying more towards having greater empathy for the struggling people on the streets and found throughout life in general. I always prayed (and pray) that our store is filled with the presence of God, however. So what happened? Was my prayer in any way answered? Get this: What began to happen was that people did not steal any less...we saw the same activity and the inventory shrink reports approached the $1000.00-$2000.00 a day range, but I began to notice that shoplifters were becoming more honest about the fact that they stole. They confessed to us in a way, a if to say "hey look, i'm hungry..or I have a habit...an addiction...or I need to feed my kids and this is the only option I have." God impressed upon my heart that I was no better than they were and that everyone sins...we all fall short in some way and none of us are righteous...any more than anyone else. He basically told me to quit suspecting them and to watch them less and love them more. Critics will say that it was not God (Because God does not exist,of course ) but that my own conscience was convicting me. I won't attempt to defend the point...all I know is that I got my job back in late 2016 after 5 months of layoff and at that time I prayed for that. I need that job as much as any homeless person needs food and shelter. Had I been forced to find another job, (which at the time I looked for) I would have taken a $4.00 an hour paycut. Conclusion?
  • I believe that God is in control of every situation.
  • Judge not lest I myself be judged. None of us are any better (or worse) than anyone else in general. It may be true that we see an occasional Hitler, or Pol Pot, or for some, a Donald Trump...but one must ask themselves if God picks and chooses whom to judge and sentence and has favorites or whether God allows Himself to become a Deity of Faith rather than Evidence and simply makes it so that we humans become the decisions that we make and in effect sentence ourselves?

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 34 by dwise1, posted 09-11-2019 3:05 AM dwise1 has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18343
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 41 of 53 (862761)
    09-12-2019 1:44 PM
    Reply to: Message 40 by jar
    09-11-2019 7:20 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    Perhaps our society was thankfully never meant to be Theocratic since humans can never agree, but don't try turning Jesus basic principles into secular humanist feelgood duties. Ever since I figured out that you shared some of the traits of Spinoza, I connected the dots of your Jewish influences with your adamant insistence towards logic, reason, and reality at the expense of traditional dogma.
    Quit asking the question of how do we know its God! God chose us. The fact that you cant objectively quantify this reality in no way diminishes its existence...nor does absence of evidence. Would you like another helping of Word Salad?

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 40 by jar, posted 09-11-2019 7:20 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 43 by jar, posted 09-12-2019 3:08 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18343
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 42 of 53 (862762)
    09-12-2019 1:50 PM
    Reply to: Message 39 by ringo
    09-11-2019 6:49 PM


    Re: Theft Affects Labor At The Bottom Line
    ringo writes:
    What people steal is just a medium of exchange. They don't steal cosmetics because they want cosmetics. They steal what's valuable and portable. They exchange it for what they need, whether that's food or drugs.
    And the fact remains that they are breaking a consensual rule, whether they can justify breaking it or not.
    Don't think for a minute that they steal with Gods blessing.
    I repeat: A society that can not take care of its weakest members - the children, the sick, the poor, the disabled, the aged, etc. - is worthless.
    And that should be on the individual conscience...never only mandated by the government. If government is to mandate societal giving, they need to also mandate punishment for theft of any kind. People can't just go around making up their own rules.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 39 by ringo, posted 09-11-2019 6:49 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 44 by jar, posted 09-12-2019 3:13 PM Phat has replied
     Message 47 by ringo, posted 09-13-2019 11:45 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18343
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 45 of 53 (862773)
    09-12-2019 5:10 PM
    Reply to: Message 44 by jar
    09-12-2019 3:13 PM


    Re: Who is "the Government"
    jar writes:
    We are the Government Phat, Congress and the President and the Supreme Court are simply our representatives.
    I knew that, of course. I am mainly addressing ringo, who thinks that there is no god and thus secular government(note he is an atheist) in its purest form should do Gods work---no god needed. That type of thinking is too far Left for me. I recently read the preview of a book, Dark Agenda: The War To Destroy Christian America and though I know that it is too far-right-wing authoritarian for me, the author does have some good points...at least in the preview. This whole idea of throwing God away (or at least out of the will of the people whome you claim make up the government is too far Left for me. Im a moderate, and not a secularist either.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 44 by jar, posted 09-12-2019 3:13 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 46 by jar, posted 09-12-2019 7:39 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 48 by ringo, posted 09-13-2019 11:51 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18343
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 50 of 53 (862826)
    09-13-2019 5:07 PM
    Reply to: Message 49 by jar
    09-13-2019 12:04 PM


    So What To Do?
    Critics say that the human heart is the problem. ringo suggests we hand out spare change. You essentially agree, saying that it is the small daily actions that count. But when you work for Caesar, you don't let Caesars food fall to thieves....even hungry ones.
    Just last night a guy came in with a backpack that I had seen before...and sure enough as we nonchalantly observed him, he would pick up items that would seemingly vanish as he rounded a corner. I prayed for god to touch him. When he got in line, (with a few things but not what we saw he had) he said one thing to me.
    "I'm sorry.". I acted as if nothing had happened. Rang him up and wished him a good day. What else can a clerk do for a customer?(or a thief)

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 49 by jar, posted 09-13-2019 12:04 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 51 by ringo, posted 09-13-2019 5:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 52 by jar, posted 09-13-2019 5:33 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18343
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 53 of 53 (862875)
    09-15-2019 1:44 PM
    Reply to: Message 52 by jar
    09-13-2019 5:33 PM


    Re: So What To Do?
    That actually seems spiritually inspired. Maybe there is hope for you yet.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 52 by jar, posted 09-13-2019 5:33 PM jar has not replied

      
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