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EvC Forum Science Forums Big Bang and Cosmology

# Time Dilation, the Hubble Shift and God's Eternal Universe

Author Topic:   Time Dilation, the Hubble Shift and God's Eternal Universe
Phat
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Posts: 17492
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0

 Message 61 of 189 (862803) 09-13-2019 12:07 PM Reply to: Message 47 by Theodoric09-13-2019 8:26 AM

Re: Is This Science Going Anywhere?
It figures you would start bitching. We can count on it like the sunrise.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

 This message is a reply to: Message 47 by Theodoric, posted 09-13-2019 8:26 AM Theodoric has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 64 by Theodoric, posted 09-13-2019 12:19 PM Phat has replied

Tanypteryx
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Posts: 3890
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5

 (1)
 Message 62 of 189 (862804) 09-13-2019 12:10 PM Reply to: Message 57 by Captcass09-13-2019 11:44 AM

Re: Interesting
There is also the possibility it was a strong base.
Well, soap is a pretty strong base.
I was a bitter atheist at the time
I haven't heard of a "bitter atheist" before, but what does any of that have to do with chemistry?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

 This message is a reply to: Message 57 by Captcass, posted 09-13-2019 11:44 AM Captcass has not replied

Tanypteryx
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Posts: 3890
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5

 (2)
 Message 63 of 189 (862805) 09-13-2019 12:14 PM Reply to: Message 60 by ringo09-13-2019 12:02 PM

Re: Interesting
ringo writes:
Captcass writes:
I was a bitter atheist at the time....
pH would only work if he was a sour or sweet atheist.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

 This message is a reply to: Message 60 by ringo, posted 09-13-2019 12:02 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Theodoric
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Posts: 8337
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3

 Message 64 of 189 (862807) 09-13-2019 12:19 PM Reply to: Message 61 by Phat09-13-2019 12:07 PM

Re: Is This Science Going Anywhere?
Well if you would not let your personal religious beliefs override your duties as a moderator maybe I wouldn't bitch as much.
I just hold you to the same standards you expect others to be held to. Is that too much to expect?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

 This message is a reply to: Message 61 by Phat, posted 09-13-2019 12:07 PM Phat has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 65 by Phat, posted 09-13-2019 12:26 PM Theodoric has replied

Phat
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Posts: 17492
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0

 Message 65 of 189 (862809) 09-13-2019 12:26 PM Reply to: Message 64 by Theodoric09-13-2019 12:19 PM

Re: Is This Science Going Anywhere?
I see your point, but keep in mind that I was posting as a member. The captain's site was public knowledge. As a moderator, I have to decide on a case by case basis what qualifies as spam and what qualifies as fodder for discussion. As the Captain is still around, he appears to not be a troll. You are always so quick to jump on someone for having an opinion! Granted we are in a science forum...I see that and it is why I suggested the Captain bring his material to the Faith & Belief side. Did it ever occur to you that the art of discussion involves listening to the other side? If you shoot people down before they have a chance to attempt to make a case, you've just killed the topic. And it just so happens that I found this person interesting. You seem interesting too, if only you were not so quick to snap at people for daring to assume they know about you.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

 This message is a reply to: Message 64 by Theodoric, posted 09-13-2019 12:19 PM Theodoric has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 66 by Theodoric, posted 09-13-2019 12:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8337
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3

 (1)
 Message 66 of 189 (862811) 09-13-2019 12:38 PM Reply to: Message 65 by Phat09-13-2019 12:26 PM

Re: Is This Science Going Anywhere?
The link to his site had no relevance to the discussion. There was no need to post the link. This has nothing to do about the good captain. He is destroying his own credibility quite fine on his own.
You admit in the post that what you were doing was not acceptable in this forum.
Much respect. For the peanut gallery, here is Captcass'es page: Homepage of Captain Cass Forrington and I will just say that normally we here at EvC do not promote other peoples pages...however I found yours interesting enough to discuss. Im not going to discuss your Cosmological Question here, though I do invite you to make a new topic in Faith & Belief in which I will discuss your lengthy discourse and conclusions regarding spirituality.
Did you coordinate with the captain to post his website? How else would you know about it? I do not see that he has posted the link anywhere. There is no link in his profile either.
You seem to be a strong believer in do as I say not as I do.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

 This message is a reply to: Message 65 by Phat, posted 09-13-2019 12:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

 Replies to this message: Message 67 by Captcass, posted 09-13-2019 1:51 PM Theodoric has not replied

Captcass
Member (Idle past 1168 days)
Posts: 70
Joined: 06-07-2018

 Message 67 of 189 (862813) 09-13-2019 1:51 PM Reply to: Message 66 by Theodoric09-13-2019 12:38 PM

Re: Is This Science Going Anywhere?
I would note that the Journal put out the following press release on the 10th:
"Journal of Cosmology Publishes the First Peer-Reviewed Paper Originating the Universe With an Eternal Creator
The paper also claims to do much more, answering some of physics most perplexing problems, and if accepted will chart a whole new course ahead.
Press Release - updated: Sep 10, 2019 08:00 EDT
SAN DIEGO, September 10, 2019 (Newswire.com) - The peer-reviewed Journal of Cosmology has announced that it has published what is bound to be a hotly debated paper by Capt. Joseph H. (Cass) Forrington, a Cum Laude graduate of the United States Merchant Marine Academy at Kings Point, New York, that describes a cosmological model that originates the universe with an eternal Creator, something that has been a long-standing taboo in peer-reviewed science journals.
The model also appears to complete General Relativity by deriving the Hubble constant as a 2.2686*10^-18 acceleration in the rate of "proper" time, rather than as an acceleration due to an expansion of space, eliminating Big Bangs and "Dark Energy."
The model describes gravity as an evolutionary force in time and solutions are also provided for quantum non-locality and galactic rotation velocities by describing the astrophysical motions in terms of the evolving quantum spacetime field and is, therefore, recommended reading for both quantum and astrophysicists.
The paper, "General Relativity: Effects in Time as Causation," can be found in the Journal of Cosmology, Vol. 26, #21."
My point being that I am tying the two together. It is a discussion that has to be had between folks of all points of view.
On the science side, I see the biggest problem as the astrophysicists not realizing they are actually looking at an evolving quantum field, not events moving through a space. They see a solid "reality", not the actual evolving world of light (energy).
This is what enlightenment is; the shift in perspective from one to the other. I began living in the world of light, the quantum world, when I was 24.....
As for the acid, I know what it was.....it was the stuff that disolved spoons and several layers of my skin off....
The night I did it without harm, I had been fasting all day since 4 AM and repeating a prayer in Arabic, the translation of I still do not know, 1000 times. I broke the fast and did it. (All my teacher's students and his own teacher were there to witness this.) I had faith.
As I was leaving, he said I could do it again now at any time, but not for just the curious, only true seekers.....
In the morning when I went to the restaurant for breakfast, the waiter, who had arranged my meeting the Haj, had about 20 people waiting to see me do it.....just curious....I had doubt, but did it anyway to save Tahn's face and burned the hell out of my hands....
The role of "perception" is crucial to our understanding of quantum mechacnics on all scales. All your external, surrounding, events have already occurred. We can only see the past. This means everything has already evolved for us, each, individually. If those events had not already occurred, you couldn't see them.
At the same time, we seem to lead the evolution of the universe since we see everything in the past fading away with distance.
In a spherical dilation pit, "life" "grows" "upward" against the direction of gravity and time, while all masses "go with the flow", so to speak.
Time evolves all events forward in the forward direction of time, but time has no depth, so events have no depth in time, no permanence, and no actual depth in space.
Edited by Captcass, : Addition

 This message is a reply to: Message 66 by Theodoric, posted 09-13-2019 12:38 PM Theodoric has not replied

 Replies to this message: Message 72 by Tangle, posted 09-13-2019 3:31 PM Captcass has replied Message 77 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-13-2019 5:34 PM Captcass has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 946 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004

 (1)
 Message 68 of 189 (862814) 09-13-2019 1:53 PM Reply to: Message 55 by Captcass09-13-2019 11:03 AM

Re: Interesting
quote:
"....... there is an immediate and compelling reason to believe that there is something fundamentally flawed in our current model of the universe."
Because they are looking at it astro-physically rather than as an evolving quantum field.
So you are saying that your "evolving quantum field" approach resolves the different measurements?
Can you show your work?
Message 54 Razd:
Obversely, as t1 ‘ , infinite divergence is impossible as t1 is always divided by a sum > 1; i.e., / (1 + 2.2686*10^-18) < .
Nope, not obvious, because the answer is still ∞ -- you'll need to do better than that.
Let me expand on your error:
$\color{white} \frac {\infty} {a} = \infty$
where a is a constant.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
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 This message is a reply to: Message 55 by Captcass, posted 09-13-2019 11:03 AM Captcass has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 69 by Captcass, posted 09-13-2019 2:33 PM RAZD has replied

Captcass
Member (Idle past 1168 days)
Posts: 70
Joined: 06-07-2018

 Message 69 of 189 (862815) 09-13-2019 2:33 PM Reply to: Message 68 by RAZD09-13-2019 1:53 PM

Re: Interesting
I am saying she is right on the model being wrong.
The constant determines the distance to the cosmological horizon regardless of what it is. Higher constant = smaller universe, lower = bigger, because time appears to stop at those distances.
As for your math, the constant is equal to 1 in order to get the result....
I am not dividing by 1.
Edited by Captcass, : No reason given.

 This message is a reply to: Message 68 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2019 1:53 PM RAZD has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 70 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2019 3:15 PM Captcass has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 946 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004

 Message 70 of 189 (862817) 09-13-2019 3:15 PM Reply to: Message 69 by Captcass09-13-2019 2:33 PM

Re: Interesting add infinity ( )
I am saying she is right on the model being wrong.
The constant determines the distance to the cosmological horizon regardless of what it is. Higher constant = smaller universe, lower = bigger, because time appears to stop at those distances.
But you have proposed a different definition, so now's your chance to show that your paradigm explains the different measurements. This is called testing.
Just saying the model is wrong does not make your paradigm right, you have to demonstrate it, show that it explains the evidence better.
As for your math, the constant is equal to 1 in order to get the result....
Nope. The constant is equal to any constant number.
∞ + ∞ = ∞
which can also be written
2 x ∞ = ∞
We can also do
∞ + ∞ + ∞ = ∞
which can also be written
3 x ∞ = ∞
or
1 + ∞2 + ∞3 + ... + ∞a= ∞
which can also be written
a x ∞ = ∞
This is elementary math
Your factor of (1 + 2.2686*10^-18)^-1 is just another value for a.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : No reason given.
Edited by RAZD, : ..
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmericanZenDeist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

 This message is a reply to: Message 69 by Captcass, posted 09-13-2019 2:33 PM Captcass has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 71 by Captcass, posted 09-13-2019 3:31 PM RAZD has replied

Captcass
Member (Idle past 1168 days)
Posts: 70
Joined: 06-07-2018

 Message 71 of 189 (862818) 09-13-2019 3:31 PM Reply to: Message 70 by RAZD09-13-2019 3:15 PM

Re: Interesting and infinity ( )
My model will be tested when the new James Webb scope goes up. Where the recessional velocity appears to reach c, we will see relativistic points of light if it is due to recessional velocity. If it is due to slower time, we will see form, as we do with GnZ11 with an apparent recessional velocity of .98c.
The math is conceptual and you can play with it as you like, but it is a valid mathematical statement confirmed by others who have reviewed it. I'm sorry if you cannot grasp the concept. Your constant always equals 1 if the result is 1. "0" is fun to play with too, and i, ........
Edited by Captcass, : spelling

 This message is a reply to: Message 70 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2019 3:15 PM RAZD has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 76 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2019 5:06 PM Captcass has not replied Message 85 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2019 9:37 PM Captcass has replied Message 90 by RAZD, posted 09-14-2019 8:36 AM Captcass has not replied

Tangle
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Posts: 8946
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9

 Message 72 of 189 (862819) 09-13-2019 3:31 PM Reply to: Message 67 by Captcass09-13-2019 1:51 PM

Re: Is This Science Going Anywhere?
Congratulations, you wrote a press release and paid a press release distribution web site published it. You must be very proud.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

 This message is a reply to: Message 67 by Captcass, posted 09-13-2019 1:51 PM Captcass has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 73 by Captcass, posted 09-13-2019 3:32 PM Tangle has replied

Captcass
Member (Idle past 1168 days)
Posts: 70
Joined: 06-07-2018

 Message 73 of 189 (862820) 09-13-2019 3:32 PM Reply to: Message 72 by Tangle09-13-2019 3:31 PM

Re: Is This Science Going Anywhere?
The journal put out the release....

 This message is a reply to: Message 72 by Tangle, posted 09-13-2019 3:31 PM Tangle has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 74 by Tangle, posted 09-13-2019 3:48 PM Captcass has replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 8946
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9

 Message 74 of 189 (862821) 09-13-2019 3:48 PM Reply to: Message 73 by Captcass09-13-2019 3:32 PM

Re: Is This Science Going Anywhere?
Then the journal paid a press distribution service to put out a press release. Congratulations.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

 This message is a reply to: Message 73 by Captcass, posted 09-13-2019 3:32 PM Captcass has replied

 Replies to this message: Message 75 by Captcass, posted 09-13-2019 3:53 PM Tangle has not replied

Captcass
Member (Idle past 1168 days)
Posts: 70
Joined: 06-07-2018

 Message 75 of 189 (862823) 09-13-2019 3:53 PM Reply to: Message 74 by Tangle09-13-2019 3:48 PM

Re: Is This Science Going Anywhere?
Thank you.

 This message is a reply to: Message 74 by Tangle, posted 09-13-2019 3:48 PM Tangle has not replied

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