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Author Topic:   Is The World Getting Better Or Worse?
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 762 (863040)
09-19-2019 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Tanypteryx
09-18-2019 11:36 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
You forgot corporate welfare.
Corporate welfare subsidizes social programs?
And I pay for my medicare, Asshole!
Congratulations, I'm very proud of you.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-18-2019 11:36 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Theodoric, posted 09-19-2019 8:36 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(3)
Message 77 of 762 (863045)
09-19-2019 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Hyroglyphx
09-19-2019 12:16 AM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
You have no real understanding of how public assistance works or who the vast majority of people on public assistance are. Very few of them are freeholders trying to take advantage of the system.
You speak of this section 8 thing as it is magic free housing. It is way inadequate what it gives in most places and is almost impossible to get in most places.
Go ahead call me a social, justice warrior. I dare you. I wear that with pride. Better than being an self entitled, blame the poor wing nut. Oh yeah your alt-right creds are showing again.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-19-2019 12:16 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2019 1:53 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 78 of 762 (863046)
09-19-2019 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Hyroglyphx
09-19-2019 12:19 AM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
Corporate welfare subsidizes social programs?
I am not surprised that you do not get the point of his comment.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-19-2019 12:19 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2019 1:34 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 79 of 762 (863050)
09-19-2019 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Hyroglyphx
09-18-2019 6:20 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
Hyroglyphx writes:
Expect in an age of WIC, TANF, Section 8, Medicaid, SNAP, Medicare, EBT food stamps, etc, etc, starvation is about as rare as Polio.
I spoke of "having enough to eat" and you go straight to starvation? Surely you aren't so blind that you don't know there are people who don't have enough to eat.
Hyroglyphx writes:
So if somebody wants free food then they just want free food.
Everybody needs food. Some people need to use social programs and charities to feed their children and themselves.
Hyrogluphx writes:
Its not a matter of life or death.
It doesn't have to be. A healthy, well-fed workforce is essential to any society.

Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-18-2019 6:20 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 09-21-2019 8:55 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 199 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2019 2:04 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(3)
Message 80 of 762 (863145)
09-21-2019 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by ringo
09-19-2019 11:48 AM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
I'll chime in with my 2 cents on this argument. As a political moderate, I can see the tension between two extremes. But the simple fact is that what we in the US spend on food stamp programs is a drop in the bucket compared to what we spend on the military. I think we can afford it.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by ringo, posted 09-19-2019 11:48 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 9:10 AM Phat has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 81 of 762 (863146)
09-21-2019 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
09-21-2019 8:55 AM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
... what we in the US spend on food stamp programs is a drop in the bucket compared to what we spend on the military.
How do you know this?
Are you complaining about what we spend on the military?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 09-21-2019 8:55 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by jar, posted 09-21-2019 9:14 AM Faith has replied
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 09-21-2019 11:31 AM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(7)
Message 82 of 762 (863147)
09-21-2019 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
09-21-2019 9:10 AM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
Faith writes:
Are you complaining about what we spend on the military?
Yes. If we can pull funds from the Military Budget for something as utterly brain dead and stupid as the US/Mexico Border Wall then we are allocating far too much to the military and should be spending that money on something that at least has value.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 9:10 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 2:08 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 83 of 762 (863150)
09-21-2019 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
09-21-2019 9:10 AM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
Are you complaining about what we spend on the military?
Reality is what it is. The US does what it does partially on the will of the people yet largely upon the collective will and plan of the corporations. As a great power, it has historically been a given that our military be "second to none" as my WWII Dad used to be fond of saying. He never bothered to study the differnt sides of the issue as I have begun to do. I see where the secular humanist liberals seek a better more peaceful world and yet do not believe in the overall sinfulness of man. The conservatives, many of them religious, are under no illusion that there can be peaceful globalism. They sense a threat to their power and position and the future survival...indeed dominance...of their offspring. White privilege is thrust in the face of conservatives, yet the reality is that they see globalism as a struggle rather than a communion. After all, if it were all "fair" we (in the US middle) would lose the power and position we now have.
ringo claims that it doesn't matter and that it is what Jesus in fact advocated.
You likely will defend patriotism and the necessity of fighting for freedom. All I can say is to remember that you believe in original sin...thus we all are potentially guilty of our actions and motives. Not just the liberals.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 9:10 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by ringo, posted 09-21-2019 12:29 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 2:23 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(4)
Message 84 of 762 (863153)
09-21-2019 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Phat
09-21-2019 11:31 AM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
Phat writes:
As a great power, it has historically been a given that our military be "second to none" as my WWII Dad used to be fond of saying.
I wouldn't downplay what the American military did in WWII but it was not G.I. Joe who won the war - it was Rosie the Riveter. A strong nation needs a strong workforce; a strong military is secondary.

Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 09-21-2019 11:31 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 09-21-2019 1:54 PM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 85 of 762 (863154)
09-21-2019 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by ringo
09-21-2019 12:29 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
There is a great tale that covers that perfectly. During the early phases of D-Day there was a German tank covering the exit road from a town. As an American tank turned the corner it would send a single shot which blew up the American tank. Again and again and again this happened. Eventually though he ran out of ammunition before the US ran out of tanks and so abandoned his position.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by ringo, posted 09-21-2019 12:29 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by ringo, posted 09-21-2019 2:01 PM jar has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 86 of 762 (863156)
09-21-2019 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
09-21-2019 1:54 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
jar writes:
Eventually though he ran out of ammunition before the US ran out of tanks and so abandoned his position.
I was actually thinking of tanks.
The same would apply to trucks, aircraft, ships, etc.

Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 09-21-2019 1:54 PM jar has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 87 of 762 (863158)
09-21-2019 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by jar
09-21-2019 9:14 AM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
Of course I'm with those who disagree with you about the importance of the wall, including Border Patrol who say it will help them enormously. It's not merely a barrier, it includes drone activity and other helps. And it can certainly be seen as a valid military expense in my opinion. But it was Phat's opinion I asked for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by jar, posted 09-21-2019 9:14 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Theodoric, posted 09-21-2019 2:20 PM Faith has replied
 Message 90 by jar, posted 09-21-2019 2:28 PM Faith has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 88 of 762 (863160)
09-21-2019 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
09-21-2019 2:08 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
including Border Patrol who say it will help them enormously
Source please.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 2:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 2:41 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 89 of 762 (863161)
09-21-2019 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Phat
09-21-2019 11:31 AM


US military
Historically the USA has been a force for good in the world, due to our Christian worldview as I understand it, and we have real enemies out there who want to destroy us. Real enemies means a real need for defensive power. I do believe the nation's Christian worldview has been deteriorating over the last few decades, but it's still evident enough to the Russian I quoted somewhere recently who sees it in our basic moral positions, which he contrasts to the corruption in Russia at all levels. That was when I was discussing the rfilm about "The Family" wherever that was.
(Found it: Message 616).
But we don't need to go into all that beyond recognizing that the US really truly has been a force for good in the world. We are not out to conquer others, we've gone to war to defend others, we help rebuild nations after they are destroyed by war, we send aid all over the world, and even if others also do that now it's by copying us because we started it. It's a Christian mindset, it is not the mindset of Communism or paganism.
And there ARE enemies out there who want to destroy us. We can have peace if we are well armed against them. It is possible then that they will leave us alone, but if they don't it's good to know we have the means to protect ourselves.
As for being fallen, that's always true of all of us, but it's nevertheless possible for a nation to be built on principles that really are good and peaceful and the US has shown that to the world. If we ever lose this perspective it will be at the hands of the Left who have conceived an irrational hatred of our good nation and actually think other systems are better which have never shown anything but murderous power-mad intent.
I'm certainly not claiming any kind of perfection in saying any of this, just a general good will that does not describe the vast majority of other nations.
You didn't really answer the question if you think we are spending too much on the military though.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 09-21-2019 11:31 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Phat, posted 09-21-2019 3:39 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 90 of 762 (863162)
09-21-2019 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
09-21-2019 2:08 PM


the wall is simply stupid!
Remember Faith, I live along the border and often deal personally with Border Patrol Agents. In fact quite a few of the shoot at the same range I use and even get leather work done by the same old shoemaker I use.
None of the folk I know that actually have their feet on the ground and deal with the actual patrolling favor the utterly stupid fence. What they favor is more automated surveillance, more horses, more atvs and more medical and other aid for the immigrants. They favor stopping the Coyotes, not their clients, more and improved crossings, more staff to get folk across legally, more lanes for traffic and more manpower.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 2:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Faith, posted 09-21-2019 2:58 PM jar has replied

  
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