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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
jar
Member
Posts: 33913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 827 of 868 (862992)
09-18-2019 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 826 by Faith
09-18-2019 10:25 AM


Re: Eugenics and Darwin
The point is that all of the evidence still shows that humans have created every God ever discussed, that Nazism/Fascism are Conservative not Liberal political and cultural creations and that Conservative Evangelical Protestant Christians in German were avid supporters of Hitler, his policies, the Fuehrer Principal and anti-Semites.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 826 by Faith, posted 09-18-2019 10:25 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 828 by Faith, posted 09-18-2019 10:40 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 832 of 868 (863002)
09-18-2019 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 828 by Faith
09-18-2019 10:40 AM


reality wins every time
Which still has NOTHING to do with the facts or reality.

The point is that all of the evidence still shows that humans have created every God ever discussed, that Nazism/Fascism are Conservative not Liberal political and cultural creations and that Conservative Evangelical Protestant Christians in German were avid supporters of Hitler, his policies, the Fuehrer Principal and anti-Semites.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
 Message 833 by Phat, posted 09-18-2019 12:17 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 839 of 868 (863012)
09-18-2019 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 833 by Phat
09-18-2019 12:17 PM


Re: reality wins every time
Phat writes:

Every God, jar? How did humans create Jesus?

Phat, there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus (the specific Jesus mentioned in the New Testament) ever existed. The only reason anyone even knows about that character is through the stories humans wrote.

Phat writes:

You seem to agree with the group of scholars who accuse the religion of undergoing change, which to me simply means that you are biased.

But again, all of the evidence shows that Christianity, like all religions has not only changed over time but is still changing. If we look at what is written in the Bible, for example the tales of Paul's encounter or the Great Commission what we see are evolving and changing stories.

It is not scholars that accuse the religion of undergoing change but rather honesty and reality.

Phat writes:

Do you reject the story because of the lack of evidence alone?

WHAT story? There is no such thing as "The Story™" just as there is no such thing as "The Bible™" . There are stories and variations on stories and interpretations of stories.

But what is fact is that what is written in the stories is actually what is written in the stories.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 844 of 868 (863051)
09-19-2019 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 842 by Phat
09-19-2019 10:20 AM


Re: The New Atheists and their defense of scientism.
Phat writes:

I meant that jar makes a case that the book evolved and changed even during its inception. While evidence shows this to be true, I sense a defense of the earlier world view and a disdain for the later worldview within the book itself.

But Phat, there is no "earlier worldview™" or "later worldview within the book itself™". You are trying to impose a uniformity and certainty that simply does not exist within either the writings or the actual history.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 842 by Phat, posted 09-19-2019 10:20 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 846 by Phat, posted 09-19-2019 2:35 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 850 of 868 (863069)
09-19-2019 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 846 by Phat
09-19-2019 2:35 PM


Re: The New Atheists and their defense of scientism.
Phat writes:

Was Pauls message the same as Jesus message then?

First, that is simply silly. Just as there is no "Bible ™" or "earlier worldview™" or "later worldview within the book itself™" there is no "Jesus message™" or "Paul's message™".


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 846 by Phat, posted 09-19-2019 2:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 852 by Phat, posted 09-19-2019 4:56 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 854 of 868 (863088)
09-19-2019 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 852 by Phat
09-19-2019 4:56 PM


Re: The New Atheists and their defense of scientism.
Phat writes:

Then why did you once claim that Paul was trying to start a new religion?

I didn't make the claim but simply pointed out the evidence and ALL of the evidence says that Paul was trying to market a new religion. BUT there was never "Paul's message™" rather the message changed over time as it became necessary to try to apologize for the utter failings of what was earlier marketed.

Paul started as did all the other folk marketing the Christology marketing a short term "the end is not just nie, it's here" product. It was based on the belief that Jesus was not simply mistaken when he said the end would come within the lifetime of his immediate audience of that moment. It was probably the first major crisis of faith and caused a total rewrite of the marketing spiel.

Paul's message changed over time and evolved to something entirely different than the early product marketed.

Phat writes:

And why does your interpretation of Christianity differ from the mainstream?

I don't interpret Christianity. I acknowledge that the others try to market what they actually wrote and claim to believe. I simply point out when their writings and marketing contradicts what is actually written in the Bible and the Creeds and reality and factual Christian history.

Phat writes:

Finally, why are *most* of the apologist's liars and conmen?

Again, what does the evidence show?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 852 by Phat, posted 09-19-2019 4:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 855 by Phat, posted 09-20-2019 11:15 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 859 of 868 (863124)
09-20-2019 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 855 by Phat
09-20-2019 11:15 AM


Re: The New Atheists and their defense of scientism.
Phat writes:

First, I might point out that attempting to approach the Bible scientifically is not the only approach nor, in my opinion, the best approach for studying it. It leads to erroneous conclusions such as you and ringos insistence that the only place a human can "find' Jesus and various human interpretations of "God" is literally within the book.

Yet you and all the other Apologists have NEVER presented a process, procedure, method or mechanism to explain how anyone can actually find Jesus or GOD other than through what has been written in the Bible.

Phat writes:

It is why you charge believers with providing evidence for you. (A wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign) you tell everyone not to *drink the Koolaid* because you were warned years ago by your sweet mama never to trust those carny barkers known as Christian Apologists and Preachers. She must have seen evidence that they wre *all* fake.

Which is all simply yet another example of your ********** as you have no idea what Mama said, mama said.

Fool!

But there is yet more glaring falsehoods in what you post. First the evidence is overwhelming that people find god through the religion they happen to be born into. Other find god in "Conversion" experiences. People find god through the Glorious Qu'ran, the writings of Mencius and Confucius, through Tao Chi or through any one of the many Hindu Esthetics.

Second there is reality and fantasies can be tested against reality.

What happens when you test the claims and writings of the apologists against reality?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 855 by Phat, posted 09-20-2019 11:15 AM Phat has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 864 of 868 (886028)
05-03-2021 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 863 by Phat
05-03-2021 2:36 AM


Re: So What About Jesus?
Phat writes:

So what about Jesus?

There is no evidence that Jesus actually lived other than the stories; no independent confirmation. And there is overwhelming evidence that "Jesus" as recorded in the stories and traditions is a creation of human minds just like all the Gods and gods.

The Jesus of the Synoptic Gospels is quite different than the Jesus of the Gospel of John or the seven different descriptions of Jesus in the letters to the churches in Revelation.

It is certain that Jesus was not at all like the creations depicting Jesus in images and statues.

So the existence of Jesus just as the existence of some god can only be a matter of belief; a symbol rather than the thing itself. As a symbol it is closer to apple than middle c.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 863 by Phat, posted 05-03-2021 2:36 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 865 by Phat, posted 05-03-2021 9:43 AM jar has replied
 Message 866 by dwise1, posted 05-03-2021 9:58 AM jar has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 867 of 868 (886035)
05-03-2021 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 865 by Phat
05-03-2021 9:43 AM


Re: So What About Jesus?
Phat writes:

This is what confuses and even annoys me about your beliefs.

Lear how to read Phat.

What I posted was not beliefs but rather the evidence that actually exists as opposed to the dogma marketed.

What does the evidence show Phat?

Explain why the descriptions of Jesus in the Synoptic gospels vs the Gospel of John or the letters to the seven churches found in Revelations are so different?

Does the evidence show that each of those is simply a creation of the author or authors/editors/translators/redactors of each passage?

Phat writes:

And then you have the gall to ask other Christians how they know that Jesus lives, or the Holy Spirit lives, or the God we market lives.

More than just asking those questions I also ask "What do those bumper stickers even mean?" and the response has always been deafening silence.

Phat writes:

I see myself as all in regarding the living Christ.

And yet again; "What does that even mean?"


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 865 by Phat, posted 05-03-2021 9:43 AM Phat has seen this message

  
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