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Author Topic:   The Power/Reality Of Demons And Supernatural Evil.
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 228 of 334 (853657)
05-30-2019 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Dredge
05-30-2019 1:04 AM


Dredge writes:

Anyone familiar with that part of the world knows it's notorious for hoax "miracles".


You have unanswered posts in dozens of threads. You could continue to make a fool of yourself in those threads instead of grave-digging.

Edited by ringo, : Added quote to clarify.


Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Dredge, posted 05-30-2019 1:04 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 10:09 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 231 of 334 (854048)
06-04-2019 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Dredge
06-04-2019 10:09 AM


Dredge writes:

If you'd been abducted by aliens as often as I have...


So you lie again. In this post you said, "I don't believe in aliens".

Dredge writes:

... you'd leave a few threads unanswered too.


Nope.
quote:
Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie
I answer every post to me, to the point of being pretty annoying sometimes.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 10:09 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 246 of 334 (854265)
06-06-2019 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Phat
06-06-2019 3:00 AM


Re: I'll Try And Answer Honestly...
Phat writes:

... I worry that the wrong spirit is permeating the culture.


Are you worried, like Faith, that the culture is going over to "the dark side"?

Phat writes:

It is intrinsic to the fallen nature to deny that God exists.


There is no "fallen nature". You're calling God a liar.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Phat, posted 06-06-2019 3:00 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Phat, posted 06-06-2019 12:37 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 248 of 334 (854267)
06-06-2019 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Phat
06-06-2019 12:37 PM


Re: I'll Try And Answer Honestly...
Phat writes:

No. Technically I'm calling the spirit the runs you around a liar.


No. This has nothing to do with me. When you talk about "the Fall", you're calling God a liar because He said Adam and Eve had become more like Him. That is not a "Fall".

Phat writes:

It masquerades as rational and logical yet denies Jesus Christ ...


Denying Jesus Christ is rational and logical. Belief is not.

Phat writes:

... and shepherds you into a secular evidence-based world view which ordinarily would be fine...healthy, even.


Accepting reality is always fine, healthy even.

Phat writes:

The key that this spirit isn't of God is that it denies Jesus Christ.


And you deny God when he says there was no "Fall". So why would we pay any attention to what you think the "spirit of God" is?

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Phat, posted 06-06-2019 12:37 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Phat, posted 06-06-2019 1:06 PM ringo has responded
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 06-06-2019 1:10 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 253 of 334 (854275)
06-06-2019 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Phat
06-06-2019 1:06 PM


Re: I'll Try And Answer Honestly...
Phat writes:

God never said that. you interpreted the scripture to say that.


Don't lie. The scripture does say that. Here it is again, for the umpteenth time:
quote:
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Note: "The man is become as one of us..." That is not an interpretation. It is an exact quote.

Phat writes:

It is your little demon...masquerading as God...who is misleading this conversation.


And yet I am the one who is quoting scripture.

Phat writes:

So why should we pay any attention to it?


I couldn't care less what you pay attention to. But as long as you keep lying about the Bible, I'm going to point out your lies.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Phat, posted 06-06-2019 1:06 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2019 1:45 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 254 of 334 (854277)
06-06-2019 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Phat
06-06-2019 1:10 PM


Re: I'll Try And Answer Honestly...
Phat writes:

Are you really going to continue to deny Christ and listen to that little thing?


Are you really going to continue to deny reality?

Phat writes:

The serious part of all of this is that it has you convinced that it is you.


You're seriously going around the bend now. There is no "it". There is no "thing". You're being paranoid. You need to get help.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 06-06-2019 1:10 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 258 of 334 (854283)
06-06-2019 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Theodoric
06-06-2019 1:45 PM


Re: I'll Try And Answer Honestly...
What percentage of christians do you think have ever read their bible? I mean actually read it cover to cover.

I don't know. My mother read it through once a year or so, but I don't think she paid much attention to doctrine. My father certainly read it through and knew it well. (He may have had the same memory for trivia that I do. )

Not just taking verses out of context.

What bugs me is that they tend to think the "overall context" overrides the local context. That gives them leeway to impose their "overall" interpretation on anything.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2019 1:45 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 09-19-2019 3:06 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 260 of 334 (863084)
09-19-2019 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Phat
09-19-2019 3:06 PM


Re: I'll Try And Answer Honestly...
Phat writes:

Dont you have an overall interpretation of your own?


No more than I have an overall interpretation of the library.

Phat writes:

Dont you often use scriptures to support your overall interpretation?


I do point out where the scriptures get it right and where believers get it wrong.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 09-19-2019 3:06 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 09-20-2019 3:45 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 266 of 334 (863133)
09-20-2019 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
09-20-2019 3:45 PM


Re: I'll Try And Answer Honestly...
Phat writes:

And you know that it is right because....
A) The Book says so.
B) Logic, reason, and the reality of human morality say so.


Nothing is true because any book says it is. Sometimes, what a book says is true but we had to know it was true before the book was written.

Phat writes:

Humans don't need God.


God is not doing what humans need done, providing food, shelter, etc. Jesus acknowledged that when He told us to do it for each other.

Phat writes:

We have an intuitive knowledge of right and wrong without Him.


That's what Paul said: "For when the gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves...." (Romans 2:14).

Phat writes:

if so, and if God is limited to a human derived book, where did we get our intuitive knowledge of what is right?


It isn't so much what is "right". It's what works best in a social species. It's part of our evolved social behaviour.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 09-20-2019 3:45 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 282 of 334 (863650)
09-28-2019 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Phat
09-28-2019 1:48 PM


Re: content?
Phat writes:

It just so happened that I had a sufficient reason to believe.


When you're three, "sufficient reason to believe" in Santa Claus is a pretty low bar.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Phat, posted 09-28-2019 1:48 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Phat, posted 09-28-2019 1:56 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 284 of 334 (863652)
09-28-2019 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Phat
09-28-2019 1:56 PM


Re: Sufficient Reason To Believe?
Phat writes:

I became a believer in roughly 1993. I was roughly 34. I don't see the correlation.


I don't see the confusion. "Sufficient reason" is pretty empty.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Phat, posted 09-28-2019 1:56 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Phat, posted 09-28-2019 2:15 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 288 of 334 (863660)
09-28-2019 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Phat
09-28-2019 2:15 PM


Re: Sufficient Reason To Believe?
Phat writes:

One man sees empty and another sees full.


You're messing up the metaphor - it should be half empty and half full. Notice that the reality is the same in both cases; only the attitude is different.

Phat writes:

Convince me that empty is better for society.


I'm not saying empty is better for society. Getting rid of the empty beliefs would be better for society.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Phat, posted 09-28-2019 2:15 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 295 of 334 (863711)
09-29-2019 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Phat
09-28-2019 4:59 PM


Re: sheesh!
Phat writes:

... if God wanted humanity to believe based on evidence and facts...


See the story of Thomas.

Phat writes:

...everyone would have no choice but to accept that God existed.


Why that a bad thing?

Phat writes:

Elaborate on what you specifically mean by empty beliefs.


Beliefs that are not anchored in reality are empty - e.g. belief in gods, fairies, etc. Belief in things like Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster are thin but not completely empty. Belief in extraterrestrials is sensible enough, even without any evidence - biology makes them a near certainty; on the other hand, belief that they have visited earth is extremely thin but maybe not completely empty.

Phat writes:

If you start asserting that Jesus never existed, however, I would argue with you.


You say you "would" but you never do. Why don't you roll out an actual argument instead of just an empty assertion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Phat, posted 09-28-2019 4:59 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by Faith, posted 09-29-2019 2:59 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 297 of 334 (863714)
09-29-2019 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Faith
09-29-2019 2:59 PM


Re: sheesh!
Faith writes:

You've referred to the story of Thomas a few times recently as an example of Jesus' giving evidence of His resurrection. Quite right. It's meant to persuade all of us, not just Thomas. Any explanation why it doesn't?


I don't see how it could persuade all of us, since we haven't seen the evidence that Thomas and the other disciples saw - so it can't be "meant" to persuade all of us. Whatever was meant, what it does do is underline the importance of evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Faith, posted 09-29-2019 2:59 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Faith, posted 09-29-2019 3:46 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 299 of 334 (863723)
09-29-2019 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by Faith
09-29-2019 3:46 PM


Re: sheesh!
Faith writes:

If it wasn't evidence of his resurrection it wasn't evidence at all for Thomas or anyone. But if it was evidence of the resurrection for them then it is evidence of the resurrection for us too...


It was only evidence for those who saw it. Jesus took the evidence with Him when He ascended to heaven so it is no longer available to any of us. It can not be the point of the story.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Faith, posted 09-29-2019 3:46 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Faith, posted 09-29-2019 4:08 PM ringo has responded

  
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