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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3312 of 4573 (863361)
09-25-2019 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 3305 by vimesey
09-24-2019 4:08 PM


Re: Here we go !
vimesey writes:
Trump impeachment: Pelosi launches inquiry into Ukraine claims - BBC News
Trump’s impeachment begins.
For the cowardly Democrats in Congress paying off paramours, obstructing justice, accepting emoluments, hiding his tax returns, refusing to put his business in a blind trust, and stonewalling all congressional inquiries (just to mention the worst) wasn't enough. But apparently inviting campaign help from a foreign country has finally put Trump over the top for these paragons of gutlessness, and now Pelosi believes she finally has sufficient House support to begin impeachment inquiries.
Trump always says whatever he needs to say at the time to deflect and confuse criticism, so his announcement that he'll make a transcript of the Ukraine phone call public shouldn't be believed. It'll be redacted or edited, or he'll change his mind and not release a transcript at all.
And making the whistleblower available for testimony before Congress? That ain't gonna happen unless Trump invokes executive privilege and forbids him to talk about anything to do with his administration.
I don't know how Trump supporters continue their support in the face of Trump's constant lies, misdeeds and cruelty. The lie that bothers me a lot was stating before the election that he couldn't release his tax returns because they were under audit when audits are irrelevant to making tax returns public. He promised to make his tax returns public later. After the election he claimed that the fact of his election meant people didn't care about his tax returns, but that's not true. They did care, and they thought the promise to release them at the appropriate time was sincere. It wasn't. I have to admit that even I, a long time observer of Trump shenanigans having grown up in the New York metropolitan area, believed he would eventually release his tax returns. But there must be extremely noxious information hiding in them, otherwise he wouldn't be working so hard to keep them secret.
It is obvious by his actions that Trump has a lot to hide, and given his stonewalling of nearly everything it looks like impeachment is the only way to bring it to light. If it turns out there's nothing there then that's fine, but we can't allow Trump to establish a precedent for the divine right of presidents.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3305 by vimesey, posted 09-24-2019 4:08 PM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3324 of 4573 (863462)
09-26-2019 7:04 AM


A Former Judge Explains Why Trump Committed a Crime
A column by former judge and now columnist Andrew Napolitano appeared at Fox News (In Ukraine call, Trump apparently personally and directly committed a crime) explaining why strong-arming a foreign government to do your campaign opposition research is a crime. A few excerpts:
quote:
The complaint related that Trump held up the sale of $250 million worth of military equipment and the delivery of $140 million in congressionally mandated foreign aid until the government of Ukraine opened a criminal investigation against the son of former Vice President Joe Biden, the leading Democratic contender to oppose Trump in the 2020 presidential election.
Can the president of the United States legally ask a foreign government to provide assistance to his reelection? In a word: No.
...
Yet, as if to flaunt the Mueller findings, Trump apparently personally and directly committed the crime for which he claimed Mueller exonerated him.
What was that crime? It was the attempt to solicit foreign assistance for his campaign. It was the manipulation of American foreign and military policy for a corrupt purpose. A corrupt purpose puts the president personally above the needs of the nation.
In short, the whistleblower alleges that Trump offered a bribe to his Ukrainian counterpart: Go after my likely opponent's son and you will get the $390 million in goods and cash that we are holding up.
...
There is no such wiggle room for bribery. The Constitution is quite clear that "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors" shall constitute a basis for impeachment.
Was Trump offering to bribe the Ukrainian president? The circumstantial evidence is: Yes. The transcript of Trump's critical conversation with the Ukrainian president shows he asked his counterpart to coordinate with American authorities to prosecute the son of his likely political opponent in 2020. That is the solicitation of something of value from a foreign government -- a felony.
It's important to remember that this is just Trump's latest impeachable offense among many.
The whistleblower complaint, as required by law for such complaints from within the intelligence agencies, was turned over to the Director of National Intelligence, Joseph Maguire, who instead of releasing it to Congress as required by law took it for review to the Justice Department that is now headed by Trump's personal lawyer, William Barr. Unsurprisingly, Barr's Justice Department ruled that Maguire didn't have to release the complaint to Congress because he didn't have jurisdiction, which is just absurd. That the Director of National Intelligence has jurisdiction over intelligence agency whistleblower complaints is as clear as day. Attorney General William Barr should be impeached, too, but I guess there's only so many impeachments a Congress can handle at one time.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 3325 by Percy, posted 09-26-2019 9:54 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3325 of 4573 (863465)
09-26-2019 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 3324 by Percy
09-26-2019 7:04 AM


Trump Aide Sends Ukraine Phone Call Talking Points to Democrats
Here's the text of the memo:
quote:
From:Symonds, Tori Q. EOP/WHO
Sent:Wednesday, September 25, 2019 11:21 AM
To:Symonds, Tori Q. EOP/WHO
Subject:What You Need To Know | President Trump's Call with President Zelensky

What You Need To Know | President Trump's Call with President Zelenskyy
Press reports have given currency to flat-out falsehoods about the call.
  • The transcript clearly shows there was no quid pro quo or anything else inappropriate about the conversation between President Trump and President Zelenskyy.
    • Myth: The President made a mysterious "promise" to Zelenskyy in return for Ukraine reviving an investigation relating to Joe Biden and his son.
      • Fact: There was no such promise. The President wanted allegations of corruption potentially involving an American official to be investigated.
    • Myth: The President offered a "quid pro quo" related to military aid for Ukraine.
      • Fact:There was no quid pro quo; in fact there is no mention of the aid package to Ukraine at all.
    • Myth:The President urged President Zelenskyy to work with Rudy Giuliani to investigate Biden's involvement in securing the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor eight times.
      • Fact: The President mentioned Rudy Giuliani only after Zelenskyy mentioned him first and referred to Biden in only one exchange.
What the President actually talked about was entirely proper.
  • President Trump asked President Zelenskyy to investigate any connection between Ukraine and attempts to interfere with the 2016 election, something he has publicly discussed in the past.
    • It is entirely appropriate for the President to ask a foreign leader to investigate any connection between his country and attempted interference in the 2016 election.
  • The President did not mention Rudy Giuliani or Vice President Biden until after President Zelenskyy had raised Giuliani first.
    • Only after Zelenskyy brought up Giuliani related to addressing corruption issues did the President ask Zelenskyy to speak to Giuliani and raised Vice President Biden's role in the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who had been investigating a Ukrainian company that had Biden's son on its board.
  • When a high-ranking U.S. government official, like then Vice-President Biden, brags that he used his official position to derail an investigation in another country that could have impacted his son, it is appropriate for the President to suggest that the matter be looked into.
    • That is not seeking foreign "interference" in a U.S. election, it is suggesting that allegations of an abuse of office merit looking into.
The real scandal here is that leaks about a second-hand account of the President's confidential telephone call with a foreign leader triggered a media frenzy of false accusations against the President and forced the President to release the transcript.
  • The country has already been put through over two years of investigation by the special counsel into a phony Russian collusion story, six months of congressional investigations into the same issue, and now Democrats want to trigger a new round of investigations into fake accusations.
  • This case just shows another example of the "Deep State," the media, and Democrats in Congress damaging our national security by leaking confidential information in an attempt to seek political gain.
Let's be clear, there was no quid pro quo for Ukraine to get US aid in exchange for looking into Biden or his son.
  • Assistance to Ukraine was mentioned by President Trump only to stress how much the United States is doing and how other countries, like Germany, need to do their fair share.
  • The President has said repeatedly that he wants other countries to be pitching in more to help Ukraine and President Zelenskyy agreed with him.
These are unique circumstances that require the transcript to be released if the American people are to know the truth.
  • After Secretary Pompeo talked with the government of Ukraine, the President determined to release the transcript of his telephone conversation to end the wild speculation and to set the record straight.
  • The President believes his private conversations with world leaders should be kept confidential and made this exception in the interests of transparency because of the amount of misinformation being spread in the press.
  • The idea that someone can hear a second-hand account of a confidential conversation and use it in a complaint to start a partisan investigation fundamentally undermines the office of President.
  • This is just another example of the "Deep State," the media, and Democrats damaging our national security for political gain.
This complaint was handled absolutely by the book and it was properly determined that no further action should be taken.
  • After receiving the complaint from the ICIG, the DNI appropriately consulted with the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) at the Department of Justice.
  • OLC determined that this complaint did not fall within the scope of the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act, and, therefore, that the DNI was not required to send the complaint to the intelligence committees.
  • The DNI did not forward the complaint because it implicated significant, constitutionally based Executive Branch confidentiality interests and there was no applicable statutory requirement.
  • While the DNI determined that the complaint should not be sent to Congress, that did not end the review of the complaint. To the contrary, the complaint was given to DOJ for appropriate review.
  • DOJ officials reviewed the complaint in light of the legal issues identified by the ICIG in his cover letter to the DNI and determined that no further action was warranted.
###

--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3324 by Percy, posted 09-26-2019 7:04 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3327 of 4573 (863490)
09-26-2019 12:53 PM


PDF of the Whistleblower Complaint
As everyone is now aware, on July 25th of this year Trump had a phone conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in which he is alleged to have used the threat of withholding promised military aid to pressure the Ukrainian President to investigate Joe Biden (a potential Trump presidential election campaign opponent) and his son. Here is a link to a PDF of the Whistleblower Complaint.
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3328 of 4573 (863492)
09-26-2019 1:04 PM


Transcript of July 25th Phone Conversation Between US and Ukrainian Presidents
Here is a transcript of the phone conversation that took place between President Donald Trump of the US and President Volodymyr Zelensky of the Ukraine. It is not a verbatim transcript as the White House does not record such calls. It is a reconstruction based upon the notes of a dozen or so people who listened in on the conversation. It was not revealed which person or persons performed the reconstruction.
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 3349 of 4573 (863705)
09-29-2019 9:06 AM


About this impeachment thing, the Kremlin has some concerns
As reported by the New York Times, the Kremlin hopes no Trump/Putin phone calls are made public.
What should our answer be? Why, of course, Kremlin, no problem. We'll be sure to keep your nefarious manipulation of our national dupe out of the public spotlight.
Not.
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3357 of 4573 (863856)
10-02-2019 9:23 AM


Will Trump Ever Leave Office?
If you want to be scared out of your wits, read Will Trump Ever Leave the White House?
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3363 of 4573 (863913)
10-03-2019 7:20 AM


Interesting USA Today Poll
A USA Today/Suffolk University Poll contained some very interesting numbers. Naturally it reflected the recent change that a plurality of Americans favor impeachment and removal from office, and it showed the Democratic numbers much higher than the Republican, but I found the numbers on a few other related issues more interesting.
10% of Democrats and 36% of Republicans think the whistleblower is a traitor, despite the very specific definition of treason in the Constitution that makes that impossible.
Only 56% of Americans know that impeachment begins in the House, only 55% that impeachment is not removal, and only 62% that it takes a 2/3 majority vote in the Senate for removal.
Only 15% expect removal through impeachment. Very few expect resignation.
Unrelated to the poll, one question I've seen discussed among pundits is whether the House should focus narrowly on just the whistleblower chargers, i.e., have just a single article, or whether it should should include articles on obstruction of justice, campaign violations, emoluments, politicization of executive branch departments, and an absence of the candor expected of someone in high office.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 3364 by Pressie, posted 10-03-2019 9:10 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


(6)
Message 3418 of 4573 (864403)
10-11-2019 7:40 AM


Abiy Ahmed Wins Nobel Peace Prize
I'd like to be the first to offer my condolences to President Trump for being bested in his quest for the Nobel Peace Prize by Abiy Ahmed, the Ethiopian prime minister who ended the standoff with Eritrea. How could this single measly accomplishment have outshone:
  • Weakening and destabilizing the western alliance.
  • Dropping out of the nuclear pact with Iraq and increasing sanctions, causing them to restart their nuclear program and simultaneously destabilizing the Persian Gulf region (seizing oil tankers, bombing oil facilities, etc.).
  • Encouraging dictators around the world, especially in North Korea, Russia and China.
  • Ending the North Korean nuclear threat - not!
  • Abandoning the Kurds in Syria/Iraq.
  • Attempting to enlist other countries in assisting his personal political aspirations.
  • This space intentionally left blank for an upcoming inevitable misdeed.
  • This space intentionally left blank for an upcoming inevitable misdeed.
  • This space intentionally left blank for an upcoming inevitable misdeed.
  • ...etc...
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 3419 by dwise1, posted 10-11-2019 9:00 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


(3)
Message 3462 of 4573 (864641)
10-14-2019 8:54 AM


Early Christmas
It's beginning to look a lot like Watergate,
Everywhere you go.
Take a look at the anchormen, they're chiding him once again,
With harsh declaims and evidence chains that grow.
It's beginning to look a lot like Watergate,
Facts in every drawer.
But the prettiest sight to see is the charges that will be
Nailed to his front door.
Some lobbying loot and a lawyer that hoots
Is the wish of Adam and Ben.
Folks who will talk and and have eyes like a hawk
Is the hope of Jerry and Jim.
And Joe and Liz can hardly wait for probes to start again.
It's beginning to look a lot like Watergate,
Everywhere you go.
There's a writ in the Congress well, that comes with a lot to tell,
The sturdy kind that sets your heart aglow.
It's beginning
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 3463 by jar, posted 10-14-2019 9:17 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3513 of 4573 (864835)
10-17-2019 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 3508 by vimesey
10-16-2019 2:36 PM


The Ukraine Crimes
No one's this thick. This is probably just a poorly conceived "muddying the waters" effort.
Discussion has moved off the original subtitle about Abiy Ahmed winning the Nobel Peace Prize, so I've changed the subtitle to "The Ukraine Crimes," of which there are two:
  • Trump attempted to enlist the assistance of a foreign power in digging up (inventing, actually) dirt on a political rival.
  • Trump conditioned U.S. military aid upon receipt of that assistance.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3508 by vimesey, posted 10-16-2019 2:36 PM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3521 of 4573 (865040)
10-20-2019 1:32 PM


Secretary of State Mike Pompeo appeared on ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos this morning, and here's my paraphrased recollection of one portion:
Stephanopoulos:Do you agree with Lisa Murkowski's characterization that holding back military aid on condition of providing domestic political assistance was inappropriate
Pompeo:I'm not going to comment on the hypotheticals posed by other people.
Stephanopoulos:It's not a hypothetical. Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney said that the held back aid was conditioned on helping Trump politcally.
Pompeo:I'm not going to comment on a hypothetical.
Stephanopoulos:It's not a hypothetical. That's what Chief of Staff Mulvaney said.
Pompeo:That is insulting to the hard working people at the State Department.
Much of the interview was evasive like this. I don't know why Pompeo agreed to be on the show if he wasn't prepared to answer most questions.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 3528 of 4573 (865566)
10-27-2019 2:22 PM


American Raid Kills ISIS Leader
Congratulations to President Trump for ordering the successful raid that resulted in the death of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, extremist leader of Islamic State, dies at 48
It is important to keep in mind that this is not the end of ISIS. Very few times in world history has killing a political movement's leader killed the movement itself.
President Trump's speech announcing the successful operation was by far the most bellicose ever uttered by an American president: Transcript of Trump’s Remarks on the Death of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. Sample excerpts:
quote:
Terrorists who oppress and murder innocent people should never sleep soundly, knowing that we will completely destroy them. These savage monsters will not escape their fate and they will not escape the final judgment of God.
...
Baghdadi was vicious and violent, and he died in a vicious and violent way, as a coward, running and crying.
...
Baghdadi and the losers who worked with him and losers they are they had no idea what they were getting into. In some cases they were very frightened puppies, in other cases they were hard-core killers.
...
He died like a dog. He died like a coward.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 3529 by Percy, posted 10-27-2019 4:09 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3531 by Theodoric, posted 10-28-2019 9:23 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


(3)
Message 3529 of 4573 (865571)
10-27-2019 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 3528 by Percy
10-27-2019 2:22 PM


Re: American Raid Kills ISIS Leader
How much credit does Trump think he deserves for the killing of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi? Not much, apparently. Here are Trump's tweets after Obama ordered the raid that killed Osama bin Laden:
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3528 by Percy, posted 10-27-2019 2:22 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22490
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 3538 of 4573 (865679)
10-29-2019 6:40 AM
Reply to: Message 3537 by dwise1
10-28-2019 8:03 PM


Re: Abiy Ahmed Wins Nobel Peace Prize
dwise1 writes:
Maybe we could call this the "red flu."
How about the orange flu?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3537 by dwise1, posted 10-28-2019 8:03 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
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