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Author | Topic: Is The World Getting Better Or Worse? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: Greenery consumes carbon dioxide and gives off oxygen. Deforestation is not the cause of the sudden rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels. Reforestation will do nothing to reverse the current trend of increasing carbon dioxide levels. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: That's all I was saying, Trees and other plants would remove some of the CO2 and replenish some of the O2. You say it's not enough. OK, it's not enough. But it's something, and the more plants the better. No plants will get us nothing. It's a band-aid on a head wound. If we are going to fix the actual problem, reforestation ain't it. The oceans make up the vast majority of both carbon fixation and oxygen production, in case you were wondering.
If we get rid of the windmills and the solar panels that kill them and do something to keep the plate glass window and the housecats from killing them. Educating about the problems, getting people working on them, producing inventions and methods. Increasing the bird population will do nothing to reverse climate change.
And nothing is stopping anyone from proposing or working on other kinds of solutions to the carbon emissions as well. The Trump administration is stopping research on this front. In fact, they are trying to stop scientists from even saying that carbon emissions are to blame for climate change.
But scientists don't know everything and motivating the average person is probably not their forte. I think that focusing so emphatically on the global problems of climate change and the Extinction is counterproductive. Most people can't follow the science, but there are plenty of consequences related to these larger problems that we CAN get across to people along with proposals for practical solutions. People love to cooperate on good projects, we don't need to hammer on the heavier kinds of science. Conservatives seem to be motivated by whatever Trump says. Trump is saying that CO2 has nothing to do with climate change. That's a massive problem.
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: Oh of course it's all Trump's fault. So let's all lie down and die. Where do you get this stuff from? Where has anyone stated that we should all lie down and die? I find it rather stunning that a conservative like yourself would be completely unaware of the Republican party actively stopping research on climate change, and trying to dissuade people from accepting the science. The only way this is going to stop is if conservative voters start getting angry about it, and letting their elected officials know about it. What I am saying is stand up and let your voice be heard.
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: I don't want to focus on climate change per se, I want to identify problems we can recognize that may or may not be related to climate change, and on a level the average person might be able to care about. There are hundreds of millions of average people in the US who do care about carbon emissions and climate change. Trying to distract people away from this problem by pointing to other issues isn't productive.
We don't need to care what Trump or anyone thinks of climate change, We do need to care what the government is doing because we can't lower carbon emissions without good public policy. Since Trump runs a rather large part of the government, it matters when he changes public policy based on his rejection of science.
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: I disagree. We can do a lot without any input from government. Like what? How are you going to pay for 10's of billions of dollars of research? How are you going to pay for subsidies for renewable energy? How are you going to make sure that people are abiding by regulations? I don't think you have a good idea of the larger picture.
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: Conspiracy theories about entities such as "Big Carbon" characterized as having no concern at all for the future of the planet, aren't persuasive to me. Reality does not conform to what you find persuasive. The 2008 recession should be a lesson for everyone. What we learned is that even the greatest minds in banking made the most basic mistakes because they were blinded by short term profits. This isn't a flaw found in just big fossil fuel companies. This is a flaw baked into human nature. When a company gets that big and is run by committee they will all too often make the wrong choices because they are blinded by short term profits.
While there are plenty of environmental problems that should be addressed, the overarching Climate Change analysis just sounds like hysteria and the usual blame game. I would hope that you try to see if what they are saying is actually true. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Thugpreacha writes: Really? How are you gonna do it? More taxes? That will go over like a lead balloon. the people are in debt enough as it is. We don't want to spend more on anything that puts us in long term debt beyond where we already are. I don't care if it saves the planet or not...if it costs too much, we won't vote for it. Republicans have voted for $20 billion in subsidies for big oil companies. That's 20 billion of your tax dollars going to oil companies right now, per year. Do you still vote for Republicans that support these subsidies?
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: Thank you for posting that. It does leave me in the position of having to figure out percentages of percentages of percentages, wondering which percentage of which gas contributes what percentage of the problem, wondering what a "sink" is and why it doesn't work to remove the extra amounts of gasses and so on. Ironically, flood waters might help you to get a grasp on what is happening. If there is a torrential downpour it can swamp the ability of natural mechanisms to get rid of the water, resulting in a lot of standing water (i.e. flood). The same is happening with carbon dioxide. There are natural processes that can pull carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, but they aren't able to keep up with the amount we are dumping into the atmosphere. You won't accept all of the dates on this graph, but if you cram the entire history of atmospheric carbon dioxide into a short time period it can still show you how far above natural levels of carbon dioxide we currently are:
During interglacial periods, which we are currently in, the natural concentration for carbon dioxide is ~280 ppm. We are currently over 400 ppm. There is zero doubt that humans are the cause of this. How much of an impact has this carbon dioxide made?
These are climate models. The green line represents the predicted temperatures if we take increased carbon dioxide out of the model. The blue line represents the prediction of climate models if we include all of the carbon dioxide humans have put in the atmosphere. The black line is the observed temperatures. The difference between the black line and the green line is the amount of warming humans have caused. We know these models are reliable because the green line tracks with the black line before humans significantly increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. IOW, both models accurately predicted past temperatures, so that gives us confidence in them.
And the idea that all this gets legislated no matter what the public thinks is very worrying. You are aware that the US Constitution allows elected officials to make laws, right?
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Faith writes: whether you know it or not and I really don't know how deep you are into the Marxist underpinnings of all this, are out to destroy the GOOD GUYS of the planet. Us. And out come the right wing hysterics.
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Faith writes: And I don't trust such charts anyway. But I would like to see some trustworthy information about those particular relationships somehow. The trustworthy information are those charts. Can you explain why you don't trust charts? If I described the chart in words would you trust it more?
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Faith writes: There are legitimate concerns about the SCIENCE according to many on my side . . . They are lying. There are no legitimate scientific questions about the general conclusions scientists have come to with regard to climate change.
Since you are clearly devoted to science you arfe going to object to this, but accusing us of other motives is unfair. Then how do you explain all of these Republicans lying about the science?
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: Christianity does not go out to conquer and subdue anyone. Faith, get thee to a history class. Start at the Crusades, and move forward through time slowly. It may be a bit scary, though, because no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
The point here is what point of view is going to be the foundation of a nation, nothing else, and unlike Islam, Christianity is tolerant of all other points of view. Ahem . . . SPANISH INQUISITION . . . Ahem
And that's why Christianity should be acknowledged as the religion of the nation. I think we all agree that Christianity is the majority religion of the US. What is more difficult to get agreement on is that we have a secular government.
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: I never ever ever mistake Catholicism for Christianity which is what you are doing. No True Scotsman fallacy.
You also fail to note that everything I've said supports the idea that the US is NOT a Christian nation. I think we'd do better if it were but it is not. What would that even look like, and how would it differ from what we have now? Would that include a ban on gay marriage, even for non-christians? Would we throw homosexuals in jail? Would a christian nation force christian theology onto non-christians?
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: The Crusades and the Inquisition were not Christian actions. No True Scotsman fallacy.
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: I suggest you think just a bit harder about that claim of fallacy. I thought hard about it. Yep, still a No True Scotsman fallacy.
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